Laurel of Leaves

getting back to my roots: my journey in true health and natural living

True Health

A Vegan Diet is Not Healthy

I’m mentally preparing myself for this one. Because it’s inevitable I’ll receive at least a few heated comments on this post. But that’s the cool thing – you can say whatever you’d like in your comment, the same way I can post whatever I’d like on my blog. So just keep that in mind if you don’t agree with what I have to say. And do try to be at least semi-courteous. You may or may not want to speak your thoughts to my face, but do remember that we are all people here, not just some nameless, faceless computer bots with gravatars.

So veganism. Generally defined as a diet and lifestyle which includes no animal products or animal by-products whatsoever. No meat, dairy, eggs, honey, etc.

Veganism Not Healthy in the Long Run

I want to make two main points here about why I believe a vegan diet is not a healthy one long term. I’m not here to debate the ethics or morality of eating animals. Full disclosure: I am an omnivore. I eat meat. And I don’t believe it is cruel to do so. But that’s because I also believe all animals should be raised in an environment conducive to their health and well-being, i.e. not CAFO operations or battery cages.

I don’t believe a vegan diet or lifestyle is ecologically sustainable, either. If you want to delve more into that, I highly recommend reading Folks, This Ain’t Normal by Polyface farmer Joel Salatin. Life changing book.

So point number one about a vegan diet:

If You Don’t Do it Right, Don’t Do it at All

Did you notice that cheese puffs or white bread aren’t animal products? Do you know some vegans or vegetarians who are more like carb-etarians or junk-ans? Just because you don’t eat red meat or cow’s milk doesn’t mean you are automatically healthier. (By the way, the vast majority of all those ‘scientific’ studies that say red meat causes cancer were done using CAFO beef. Of course animals kept in confinement standing knee deep in their own poop, and being pumped full of hormones and antibiotics, and being fed a completely abnormal diet of corn and candy wrappers will produce some nasty meat that can absolutely cause disease in your body. Same thing goes for pasteurized cow’s milk. But I digress . . . )

Winter Chop Salad with Apple, Pear, & PomegranateHere’s the deal – when done right, a vegan diet makes a fantastic detox diet in the short term. Scads of people have switched from a junk food diet of processed and fast food, replaced it with a vegan diet full of raw vegetables, fruits, nuts, seeds, and legumes and have seen their health improve drastically. All those foods are incredibly healthy superfoods! And the vast majority of people in the Western world would do well to abide by that sort of a diet for a few weeks or months.

But (and this brings me to my next point) a long-term vegan diet is not a wise way to go. Many people (like John Nicholson) find their health deteriorating at a rapid rate when following a vegan diet.

A Vegan Diet is Not Nourishing

This is so fascinating to me. Did you know that without plenty of healthy fats in your diet, you are not able to assimilate and absorb the nutrients in fruits and vegetables? This means you can eat kale and bell peppers until you are green in the face, but if you’re not consuming enough healthy saturated fat, it’s like you didn’t even need to bother.

And where do you find these healthy fats? Sure, you get them from coconut, avocado, almonds, and olive oil, but these sources are not always in season, not always convenient to purchase in your area, and are not always present in your diet in a high enough quantity on a given day to meet your body’s requirements to function properly. After all, 60% of your brain and nervous system are made of fat. We need fat for proper brain function, nerve signal transmission, and hormone balance!

Lovely CowsBut butter from grass-fed, pastured cows is rich in saturated fats, vitamin A, buytric acid, conjugated linoleic acid (CLA – a powerful cancer fighter), and lauric acid. Grass-fed, pastured beef itself is also rich in these same nutrients, as well as being a fantastic source of protein, amino acids, and vitamin B12 – which vegans must take as a supplement (a required nutrient our bodies don’t create – we must get it from animal sources).

Omnivores Healthier Than Vegetarians in Indigenous Cultures

I read an awesome anecdote about my main man Weston A. Price over on The Healthy Home Economist’s blog (she wrote a great article about how 75% of vegetarians return to eating meat). The study Price documented is very telling about how a vegetarian or vegan diet is unsuited for humans. Here she is in her words:

Dr. Price traveled the world in the 1920′s and 1930′s visiting 14 isolated cultures in the process.  During this adventure which he documented in great detail with amazing pictures in his masterpiece Nutrition and Physical Degeneration, Dr. Price concluded that while the diets of these natives varied widely, nutrient dense animal foods high in the fat soluble vitamins A, D, and K (also known as Activator X) were the common denominator.  Consumption of these animal foods were revered in these communities as they bestowed vibrant health, ease of fertility, healthy children, and high resistance to chronic and infectious disease.

This discovery was a disappointment to Dr. Price who had expected to find the vegetarian cultures to be the healthiest cultures of all. But, the vegetarian cultures he examined displayed more degeneration than the omnivore cultures which surprised him given that these vegetarian cultures did indeed have superior health than the Americans of his day.

A sad commentary on the state of health in the Western world with our plastic, packaged, chemical-filled foods, but a true insight into the path to optimal health – it includes animal foods! 

If you are looking for quality sources of sustainably raised beef & dairy, check your local farmer’s market (find one near you on the Local Harvest website) or have it shipped to your door from Beyond Organic

I also want to highlight an absolutely beautiful, almost poetic look at this topic from Kristen of Food Renegade. Her post, Why I’m Not a Vegan, spoke volumes to me about this issue. I think you’ll find it well worth reading.

What has been your experience with a vegan or vegetarian diet? 

This post is linked to Simple Lives Thursday, Fight Back Friday, Sunday School

  1. Tammy Schack

    April 12, 2012 at 8:50 am

    This is a wonderfully written, common-sense, excellently documented approach to the reasons it behooves us to carefully consider how we choose to live and what to consume. We cannot afford to take a haphazard approach to how we fuel body, soul, and mind. Our power to not only survive, but thrive, depends on it. Bravo!

    1. Lori Winter

      April 12, 2012 at 12:09 pm

      Thanks Tammy! I appreciate your words :)

      1. Christina

        January 20, 2013 at 9:36 pm

        I eat a mostly vegan diet made up of whole, unprocessed foods; however, I still eat meat, because that is when I feel best. I wish the vegan community would embrace those of us who realize that the processed, factory farm crap is not good for anyone; and applaud everyone who makes an effort to be more conscious in their food choices. The hatred and self-righteousness of so many vegans turns people off and their arguments are completely ignored. It would be better for the animals, the humans, and the environment if everyone ate one vegan meal a day – filled with whole, unprocessed foods – right!?! Vegans, stop making conscious omnivores your enemy and start working with us and let’s see what can be accomplished!

        1. John

          September 20, 2013 at 1:23 pm

          Vegans do not believe we are superior to anyone which is why we are vegans.

          The article is just flat wrong and there’s no scientific proof that you need animal fat at all. Seriously, name the magical property in meat that keeps you alive that doesn’t exist in plants? You can’t. And using a 1930’s study of small villages? What the heck. The times are different now and we can supply all of the nutrients needed for a health vegan diet. Including the ability to be bodybuilders. Anyone hear of Patrik Baboumian or Robert Cheeke? Frank Medrano? How about the long term ladies Annette Larkins? Kathy Najimy? Mimi Kirk? and tons more that prove living vegan you can look and feel great. No meat.

          btw: Better for the animals? In what way? Have you heard their screams when they are killed? Just because they are raised on a farm doesn’t make that pain any better when they are “processed”. Its actually you that think you are above other sentient beings, not vegans.

          Vegetarian is so 90’s. Do you know the water footprint of the processing? It takes 12lbs of grain (300 gallons of water to produce) to produce 1lbs of beef (2500 gallons of water to process). So you’re getting less food, less nutritious food, wasting water, contaminating the air and ground, and children go without food and starve because of your selfish choice not to learn and do things better. Sure its a big jump for some but look at what you can accomplish for future generations. CAFO’s are horrible and contributing to the worst damage of our environment with CH4 even over cars. These are just some of the points the article misses in order to justify its points (which are misleading). I’m healthier, happier, even look tons better as a vegan. Time to evolve. Respectfully.

          1. Raegan

            September 24, 2013 at 4:51 am

            haha!!! I love you!! Vegans for the win :’)

          2. María

            October 24, 2013 at 4:14 am

            I wouldn’t have said it better than you, John.

          3. Mark

            October 28, 2013 at 12:23 am

            Um…how many pounds of *grain* does it take to produce the *grass-fed, pastured* beef the author mentioned?

          4. Vegan Hypocrisy 101

            November 8, 2013 at 2:24 am

            “Vegans do not believe we are superior to anyone which is why we are vegans.”

            Funny how you start by claiming this and then immediately jump into the usual myriad of holier-than-thou chest thumping, anti-science rambling, hypocritical emotionalism, Animal “Rights” fanaticism and flat-out lies that define the idiocy of the vegan movement.

          5. Brittany

            November 8, 2013 at 8:04 am

            Hear, hear John.

          6. Nik

            November 22, 2013 at 11:33 pm

            One magical property? B12. I considered going vegan till I did some research. I feel like if one has to supplement because their diet doesn’t supply any one essential nutrient, their diet is not what I would consider “healthy”. I live in Austin, TX. Hippieville capital, USA. I can spot a vegan a mile away because of their sunken eye sockets and hollow collarbones, and it’s confirmed when they start rolling their humongous eyes at my salmon fillet and pulling apple slices out of their bags.

            I would never feed my cat a predominantly non-meat diet because he’s an obligate carnivore and requires nutrients that only meat can provide. I give my own body that same respect as a creature from a long line of omnivores. Pescetarian FTW.

          7. Stan

            December 2, 2013 at 5:38 pm

            So much for not being self-righteous.

          8. david munoz

            January 5, 2014 at 9:55 pm

            Well Said John! Well said! I would just replace one word you used… “processed” animals do not get processed they are murdered… as you know meat eaters try to use wording to cover up what they really are doing, so they do not feel as guilty for the hypocrisy in their lives!

          9. leigh Caulton

            April 7, 2014 at 9:55 am

            Hi john just so you know its Vitamin B12. Get educated idiot

          10. Elsa

            April 9, 2014 at 12:37 pm

            Well said, no need for my vegan opinion on this article after your amazing response. Vegan for life! Fyi my life insurance gave me an additional discount because I am above excellent health :) all because of my vegan diet.

          11. Alexandra

            June 22, 2014 at 1:15 am

            Couldn’t have said it any better john! As well as this, humans are meant to stove off of a plant based diet. Our bodies aren’t made to digest meats, or any animal products! Our jaws, teeth, hands and feet, and our instestines are so much more alike to the fruitarian and vegan animals. If you’re not feeling amazing on vegan lifestyles, then your not eating enough.

          12. Mar

            June 24, 2014 at 5:06 pm

            Hello leigh Caulton

            FYI Vitamin B12 is NOT in meat; is produced by bacteria in meat
            thats the reason many pharmacists can produce Vitamin B12 in large scales without meat or its derivates

            so you grab a book

          13. drmilly

            July 2, 2014 at 11:20 pm

            I love your disregard for science,

            http://www.veganhealth.org/b12/int

            It has long been assumed that B12 is produced by bacteria in the large intestine (aka the colon), but since B12 is produced below the ileum (where B12 is absorbed), it is not available for absorption. This theory is reinforced by the fact that many species of totally or primarily vegetarian animals eat their feces. Eating feces allows them to obtain B12 on their diets of plant foods.

            http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/9028851

            Vitamin B12 deficiency is known to be associated with signs of demyelination, usually in the spinal cord. Lack of vitamin B12 in the maternal diet during pregnancy has been shown to cause severe retardation of myelination in the nervous system. We report the case of a 14(1)/2-month-old child of strictly vegetarian parents who presented with severe psychomotor retardation. This severely hypotonic child had anemia due to insufficient maternal intake of vitamin B12 with associated megaloblastic anemia. MRI of the brain revealed severe brain atrophy with signs of retarded myelination, the frontal and temporal lobes being most severely affected. It was concluded that this myelination retardation was due to insufficient intake of vitamin B12 and vitamin B12 therapy was instituted. The patient responded well with improvement of clinical and imaging abnormalities. We stress the importance of MRI in the diagnosis and follow-up of patients with suspected diseases of myelination.

          14. Rochelle

            July 18, 2014 at 1:35 pm

            Well said. I am not even sure how I ended up on this fiction piece of blog space, but it truly makes little to no logical sense. Consuming animal secretions is flat out disgusting and unnecessary and to eat their flesh is even more barbaric. Veganism is the future and there really is no way around this no matter how much you want to moan and groan about it. Go to a hospital right now and find me just ONE deathly ill VEGAN. Pfffft. Unbelievable nonsense.
            “Nothing will benefit human health and increase the chances for survival of life on earth as much as the evolution to a vegetarian diet.” —Albert Einstein

          15. ingrid

            August 3, 2014 at 9:31 am

            John, thanks so much for your comment, you are so right, and I also read somewhere that 98% of meat in USA is factory farmed. It’s most probably the same here in the UK, so that means animal suffering, environmental issues and contaminated meat on a grand scale for starters.

          16. Olivia

            August 3, 2014 at 12:34 pm

            Agreed not to mention it is said that meat is a slow digesting food whereas fruits and veggies aren’t plus since becoming vegan I don’t think of turning to junk like Cheetos or processed crap. Because I am getting all the natural sugars from fruits and all the energy I need from veggies as well

          17. Kade Miller

            August 19, 2014 at 1:05 am

            SO EVERYONE SHOULD BE VEGANS?????????
            lets say we stop all the so called animal cruelty going on.
            Agriculture requires taking over entire living communities and clearing them away, then planting the land for just humans. All of that is a long way of saying “extinction.” None of us can live without a place to live, without habitat. An activity that has destroyed 98% of most animals’ habitat can hardly be claimed to be animal-friendly.
            You take a piece of land and you clear every living thing off it–and I mean down to the bacteria. That’s what agriculture is. Richard Manning has this great line, “A wheat field is a clear-cut of the grass forest.” He’s right.
            Besides the mass extinction, it’s inherently unsustainable. When you remove the perennial polyculture–the grassland or the forest–the soil is exposed and it dies. It turns to desert ultimately.
            Northern Africa once fed the Roman Empire. Iraq was forests so thick that sunlight never touched the ground–no one in their right mind would call it the “Fertile Crescent” now. The dust storms in China are so bad that the soil is literally blowing across the Pacific Ocean and over the continent until it hits the Rocky Mountains, where it’s causing asthma in children in Denver.
            The planet has been skinned alive. And the only reason we have not hit complete collapse is because we’ve been eating fossil fuel since 1950. This is not a plan with a future as peak oil is probably behind us and we are on the downside of Hubbert’s curve.

          18. Sojo

            September 16, 2014 at 4:51 am

            I remember, plenty of times, plowing up and basically sterilizing hectares and hectares of ‘cattle’ land and turning it into ‘farmland’. At the time, the destruction of native flora and fauna to create this was considered the norm. I remember plowing up baby rabbits from their home, as a child, and crying because I took their home and turned it into a barren wasteland to grow okra, which I hated anyway but the family liked. Years pass and I see all the bull passed on in the media about cow farts messing with global warming and the like and I just wanna laugh and shake my head at the same time. Let me take you to one of those large farms that feed vegetarians…a farm that grows your food and I can probably name the indigenous wildlife that scrapes a meal off that property with one hand. Let me show you a grass-fed pasture for cattle though and I can show you a world so vast and varied that you can’t name even a minute fraction of the thriving wildlife and multitude of eco-systems on that same size of land. Vegetarianism is a faith system. It is based on a belif system that is flawed. Please. Think for yourself people.

          19. Sissi

            October 1, 2014 at 1:53 pm

            My points precisely, John.
            And just one more: animals are not naturally available either for people eat anytime anywhere, so the argument so “cleverly” found for plants apply all the best for animals.
            The article also ommits cereals completely.
            And what can you tell about the fact that mammals do not naturally produce the necessary enzime to digest dairy products when suckling is over? According to you, what could that possibly MEAN?? Now, think a little bit…
            It is (almost) hard to believe all the amazing predictable and well known statements (as truth) in the comments also, and the latest fad: B12. First we had protein, then iron, now it’s B12. And vegans’ sunken eyes and paleness? Please….

          20. Trina

            October 4, 2014 at 7:02 pm

            Good thing I have the internet to let me know that my blood work is incorrect and I’m actually severely deficient and unhealthy. Oh, my mirror must be terrible, also, since it shows that I look the best I ever have and those sunken eyes that people are going on about.. must be some trick my mirror is playing on me. There is too much ignorance and pseudoscience in this blog article to ever be taken seriously, the sad thing is that some people will believe anything that’s written on the internet and now this ignorance will be spread further. Sigh. For the record, I’m studying to be a food scientist. Just putting that last part out there, just in case my credibility is attacked. Might wanna take it up with my doctor and mirror, though.

          21. Ralph Graham

            January 9, 2015 at 10:53 am

            One of the problems we get in this conflict is that no matter how many times thorough articles with quoted studies and statistics appear, the same arguments and myths are served up again and again. It isn’t just that no one has read them. It is more that people hear these arguments and just repeat them without examining them.

            Nik says vegans have to supplement B12, so veganism must not be valid.

            I will admit veganism is increasing at an astonishing rate across the globe but as yet compared to meat eaters they are still a tiny bunch. So who is eating the train loads of B12 tablets? Yes, meat eaters and not for fun but because they are found to be deficient. B12 was more plentiful in older times when we weren’t so keen to wash our foods. B12 is fed to meat animals in their feed. Wonder why? Not adopting vegan eating because taking B12 is recommended is not a reason at all. You are missing out on so much.
            Even without adopting the compassion for animals needlessly killed, a properly managed vegan diet is a happy thing indeed: health is good, immunity is good, digestion is good, recovery from the occasional sickness is rapid, weight is right for age and size, and life is enjoyed longer. Think of the relatives and friends who are in the ground due to heart disease and many cancers. These are amazingly rare among long term vegans who manage their eating well. Junk food vegans fare a little better than junk food meat eaters but as you would expect they don’t get a lot of the benefits that are possible. Heart disease can not only be prevented but even advanced cases can be reversed over time with the ‘plants only’ diet [heartattackproof.com]
            Evidence abounds that supports veganism and it increases all the time.
            [nutritionfacts.org]

            The case for seeing a new view of animals is very powerfully put in the documentary, Earthlings [earthlings.com] if you dare watch it.
            Very best to all :)

          22. Ralph Graham

            January 9, 2015 at 10:54 am

            Meant to add:
            Thanks to Lori for allowing a free flow of information here :)

          23. Danielle

            February 10, 2018 at 11:21 pm

            Vegan hypocrosiy 101 Not all people of any culture movement faith or ethnicity is totally correct.I messaged an Asian Bhuddihst woman last year that believed all Arabic people are butchers.That is a bold faced lie.I’ve read an article stating being a Muslim Vegan.was not hard granted not all Muslims are Arabic however I believe she was.Another person stated that in the Qur’an there is a passage stating that to leave an animal to sufffer so shall you or something to that effect.Our teeth are not the same as carnivores teeth.Look at Your dogs or cats better yet watch a wolf or wildcat yawn they all have pointy teeth we do not have the majority of our teeth pointed in the same way as theirs.Only our top 2 on either side close to our front.They most likely are used to crack nutshells so we may consume the nuts inside.Touche’ sweetie.There is iron in sunflower seed kernels and many other fruits and vegetables.For those that are allergic or sensitive to things like soy nuts gluten and onions there are many other replacements grown from the earth so that the animals do not have to die.Nature itself is population control for wild animals.Wildabeasts in multitudes have the 4 natural predators of lions,cheetas,leopards,and crocodiles kill them.Yet monstrous people kill lions for sport not self defense increasing the wildabeasts populations.We should give animals guillotines and guns to even the score.

        2. Tawny

          February 17, 2014 at 8:22 pm

          Then your eating a mostly PLANT BASED diet, Not Vegan, Veganism is not just food, If you eat dead animal flesh do not refer to yourself as Vegan

      2. Stephen

        February 6, 2013 at 12:34 am

        Vegan diet done correctly has more nutrtion in than any other diet on the planet for humans. People who tell you otherwise don’t know what they’re talking about. And should stop telling lies. And giving out disinformation. And instead of panicing they should start growing more fruit and veg! Check out nutritionfacts . org – they explain about what is healthy!

        1. Jered

          February 13, 2013 at 6:32 pm

          How is it remotely more nutritious than a balanced diet with lean protein? If “done correctly” you’re probably in taking no more than 1000 calories a day.. Which is great if you’re trying to detox or lose weight fast (binge diet basically) but over time your body will not function properly by cutting out one giant food group. Our ancestors ate meat and fruits/vegetables.. For a reason mind you.

          1. Sarah

            February 24, 2013 at 12:00 am

            As a vegan of YEARS I am quite healthy. If I examine my calorie intake each day it is noramally 2000-2200 calories. I have gained weight since becoming a vegan. You are an idiot who tries to justify the moral implications of meat with false ideas, just as the author has done.

          2. Josh

            February 26, 2013 at 4:11 pm

            Our ancestors also killed each other for the right to mate but I don’t see people doing that anymore. If you’re going to be a caveman, do it right.

          3. Kristen

            March 14, 2013 at 7:22 pm

            I hate discussing veganism with people. As a vegan, I do not try to push my beliefs on anyone unless they demand I defend my lifestyle. Being a vegan does not automatically mean you are eating a healthy diet. There are still many unhealthy vegan options. Vegans still have to maintain a balanced diet just like everyone else does. An unbalanced eating vegan and an unbalanced eating omnivore are both just as unhealthy. A balanced eating vegan does not miss any nutrition, and in fact receives probably more nutrition, than an omnivore receives. It just takes more planning, and chances are if you’ve made the decision to become a vegan you’ve accepted that.

          4. Barbara Bankes

            May 3, 2013 at 12:12 pm

            If you believe in the Bible, the first diet did not include meat. It was based totally on plant based foods. How long did Adam and Eve (or early people) live?

          5. Zach Bonvallat

            June 9, 2013 at 1:26 am

            Jered, I feel it is my duty to inform you that because of our Capitalistic Society we have been given false information in order for those selling the “goods” to profit. If you take what is told to you for face value without digging deeper you may be mislead and that is why I actually encourage people not to believe me but to come up with the answers on their own accord. With that being said, The fact is: Protein is never an issue with dieting, as long as you eat enough calories, you will eat enough protein.

          6. Rob Papworth

            June 16, 2013 at 11:29 pm

            @Barbara Bankes. Let me guess you are someone who claims to be religious but clearly knows nothing about religion or the Bible in its entirety. If you would like me to literally make you speechless with references as to how absurd and misguided the point is that your trying to make I would be more than happy to. I kind of hope you were joking so that the ridiculous ignorance you display isn’t actually true…..

          7. Vegan Hypocrisy 101

            November 8, 2013 at 2:27 am

            “As a vegan of YEARS I am quite healthly”

            And I’ve been eating meat my entire life and I’m easily more healthier than you.

            “You are an idiot who tries to justify the moral implications of meat with false ideas”

            No, you’re just a lying, psychotic, fanatical moron who needs to live in a world of anti-science propaganda and self-deluded fantasy to mask the fact that you’re a psychopath who values the lvies of animals more than humans. Well, that and your extremely unhealthy lifestyle. Idiot.

          8. Vegan Hypocrisy 101

            November 8, 2013 at 2:28 am

            “Jered, I feel it is my duty to inform you that because of our Capitalistic Society we have been given false information in order for those selling the “goods” to profit.”

            Zach, I feel it is my duty to inform you that you’re just regurgitating a lot of socialist propaganda which has absolutely no real-world application, much like a Useful Idiot.

          9. Vegan Hypocrisy 101

            November 8, 2013 at 2:32 am

            “Our ancestors also killed each other for the right to mate but I don’t see people doing that anymore. If you’re going to be a caveman, do it right.”

            A stupid argument from a truly stupid mind.

          10. Tawny

            February 17, 2014 at 8:25 pm

            You wanna tell that to my friend Frank who’s been Vegan for 50 years

          11. Sissi

            October 1, 2014 at 2:10 pm

            Our ancestors started out as vegans – there was no cattle willingly taking their milk from their children just to give it to Man, and no animals just willingly coming to die at humans’ feet to be eaten. Human physiology, metabolism and anatomy are very straightforward proof of that. Eating other animals came as a necessary step for the survival of the species, and Man adapted partially to the new diet – but only to some extent – and only once he controlled fire (we are not capable to live on raw meat).

          12. Chris

            October 26, 2014 at 3:03 am

            @ BarbaraBankes – I like to theories with theology too.
            Adam and Eve also had access to the Tree of Life, kind of. It could be theorized that time and aging, as we know it, did not exist in the Garden of Eden. Biologically speaking, there may be a level of degradation in genetics when you’re several generations succeeding the perfect human specimens. Plus communal diseases and a dense population go hand and hand.

            It wasn’t until the account of Noah that the Bible specifically mentions waters (rain) falling from the sky. The same waters placed there at the beginning of the creation story. If that barrier was still intact up until then, it would have been an extra layer of protection from the sun. Also, during the time of Noah, humans already had customs that were not sanctioned by God, which may have included eating meat. After the flood, God permitted Noah and his family to add animal to their diet. So, if you believe the Bible, that Noah & Co. repopulated the earth, we’ve BEEN eating meat; perhaps longer than the era of a plant based diet. People did live into the hundreds for a while after the flood.

            And if you believe the Bible, then you should recognize that mass crop farming, like industrialized animal farming, isn’t exactly great stewardship. As @Sojo and @KadeMiller can attest in later dated posts. When the food industry’s aggressively pushed crop, SOY, is a staple of people’s diets and there only remains about 5 nutrients in soil when there should be ~70 (fyi : plants don’t carry as many vitamins and minerals as they used to), we need to rethink this whole food business. The future should probably involve small local farms (community run/serviced or family run), terraces, pasture grazed animals, and bats…lots of bats.

            tl:dr Both the Bible and science (the human body adapted for hunting; a brain enhanced by meat consumption) support a plant based diet supplemented by meat. The key to a truly well-balanced diet depends on well-balanced food production. Techniques for organic, as-sustainable-as-it’s-gonna-get, and waste reducing agriculture (as well as hunter-gatherer options) and distribution are there. All they need is to be implemented and consumers need to get behind them.

        2. yourkiddingright?

          February 21, 2013 at 5:25 am

          Adolf Hitler was a vegetarian…we all know how “right” he thought he was…..sheesh!

          1. bullywee

            February 22, 2013 at 4:46 am

            Actually, the Hitler was a vegetarian claim has been exposed as a myth – as propaganda from his enemies. However, even if he had been, that proves nothing as there as there have been many more dictators and despots who were meat eaters and I don’t see you saying “sheesh” to that. What has been proven is that vegans and vegetarians are, on average, more compassionate not only to animals but to people – and that there is a link between animal abuse and abuse of humans.

          2. SAM

            February 28, 2013 at 2:58 pm

            Hey, I`m german and I read a TONE of stuff about hitler in the Federal Archive and many “friends” or other Nazis wrote diarys which often contained dinners with Mr, Hitler and he ate A LOT of meat… mostl pork and Wiener Schnitzel… he was cruel but that has NOTHING to do with his diet!

          3. Jake

            March 4, 2013 at 6:16 pm

            Hitler was a great man. I forget sometimes that people still feel justified to reference him in an implicitly derogatory manner. We must realize that the victors of war write history, and as far as I’ve studied, Hitler is the most lied about man in history:

            To homophobes he was homosexual. To homosexuals he was homophobic.

            To Anti-Zionists he was a Zionist Jew. To Zionists he was an anti-Zionist Aryan.

            To vegetarians/vegans he consumed meat. To anti-vegans he was vegan.

            No matter your walk of life, this man is your devil. And what a crock of shit it all is.

            For the record: Hitler loved animals and was vegetarian (what veganism originally meant) by his own accord from a young age. Once in power he shut down all the slaughter factories in German territory and implemented the first comprehensive anti-animal cruelty laws.

            I’m vegan and honor National Socialism for what it truly is, the world’s liberator and path to the next Golden Age.

            This article ignores the multitudes of lifelong vegans who show greater health and longevity than the rest of the population. K9s are natural omnivores; humans don’t have the requisite acidic saliva or canine teeth to be omnivore. Humans hunted because one) they didn’t know how to cultivate the soil, and two) in cold regions hunting was necessary for survival. This is not the case today.

          4. Andrew

            March 31, 2013 at 9:00 am

            Wow Jake, you really are a sick puppy, the victors didnt need to rewrite the history of WWll you idiot, it only happen 70 years ago, there are plenty of people around now or who only just died that saw first hand exactlt what sort of lunatic/mass murderer hitler was. Tell me if we arnt meant to eat meat were were our ancestors suppos eto get B12 from, did they go down to the local chemist and buy supplements.

          5. Bridget

            April 12, 2013 at 1:13 am

            Hitler also probably wore socks. Do you wear socks? He probably brushed his teeth. You too? The similarities are endless! Obviously we’re all just like Hitler, every single person commenting!!

          6. Alisa

            April 13, 2013 at 4:29 pm

            He became vegetarian because his doctor advised it.
            Saddam Hussein ate tons of meat.
            And if Hitler was a vegetarian, how does it feel knowing that the most evil man in recent history was kinder to animals than you are?

          7. Richard

            June 3, 2013 at 3:28 pm

            The statement about our teeth and saliva supporting an omnivore diet is inaccurate. Our set of teeth does in fact include canines for the purpose of tearing meat as well as the type of molars that chew both vegetables and meat. In every science book humans are regarded as omnivores. You can’t deny that fact. And,
            “Humans hunted because one) they didn’t know how to cultivate the soil, and two) in cold regions hunting was necessary for survival.” This is in fact the case today in some cultures.

          8. ExLibertas

            June 3, 2013 at 10:32 pm

            Yes. Hitler was also a human. So now all humans are exactly like Hitler because they have something in common with him.

          9. ExLibertas

            June 3, 2013 at 10:38 pm

            Great, Jake.

            Hitler supposedly closed all the slaughterhouses (for animals) in German territories and opened slaughterhouses for humans instead. He brought Europe to one of the worst periods in human history – modern Dark Age. I feel very sorry for you and your deluded beliefs.

          10. Vegan Hypocrisy 101

            November 8, 2013 at 2:29 am

            “Actually, the Hitler was a vegetarian claim has been exposed as a myth – as propaganda from his enemies.”

            No it hasn’t. Wishing for something really hard doesn’t make it true, sorry.

          11. Vegan Hypocrisy 101

            November 8, 2013 at 2:31 am

            “This article ignores the multitudes of lifelong vegans who show greater health and longevity than the rest of the population.”

            Probably because they don’t exist.

            But then, you’re a nimrod who thinks Hitler was a “great man” and who denies the fact that homo sapiens are natural omnivores.

          12. Vegan Hypocrisy 101

            November 8, 2013 at 2:35 am

            “And if Hitler was a vegetarian, how does it feel knowing that the most evil man in recent history was kinder to animals than you are?”

            Congratulations. You may very well be the biggest idiot of all the vegan zealots posting here, which is saying a LOT.

            PS You kill more animals through pesticides, trapping, planting, harvesting, threshing, ETC to get your precious vegan diet than the one animal that dies for my steak, you hypocritical moron.

          13. Tawny

            February 17, 2014 at 8:37 pm

            ok you are a bleeping idiot. Its never been proven if Hitler was a vegetarian. But lets see who was Albert Einstein, Leonardo da Vinci and Gandhi to start. and you mr.101. Most Vegand eat organic, planting and harvesting? More food is planted and harvested for you to get that steak that could be feeding 10’s of people. The one animal that dies, really???? You’re only going to eat one steak in your whole life, thats all the meat your ever going to have. Its not one, its BILLIONS and BILLIONS of land animals every year killed for the greed of only 7 billion people. You sir are the moron

          14. Mar

            June 24, 2014 at 5:08 pm

            Osama bin Laden loved eat meat… so what your point?

          15. Sissi

            October 1, 2014 at 1:58 pm

            Hitler was not a vegetarian, that is another convenient legend for “some”.

        3. Eerie

          March 13, 2013 at 4:21 pm

          it’s always the case that when some information goes against Vegan belief system that the information JUST HAS TO BE WRONG.

          This goes for all decisions in life, sometimes you will be wrong, and it’s how you act when you discover that defines your personality.

          Personally, I struggle talking to vegans about anything because in my experience they turn every attempt at a conversation as a way to push their beliefs on me.

          I don’t think it’s just about eating anymore, more like a religion.

          1. Mike

            April 5, 2013 at 10:21 am

            This is a fantastic comment. Well said!

          2. Bridget

            April 12, 2013 at 12:49 am

            It’s very possible to be healthy eating vegan. If you have any questions about nutrition, such as what I eat and where I get b12 (not supplements) or other nutrients you have been misinformed about in their relation to a vegan lifestyle, feel free to ask.

            Veganism is very different than religion. Gods are something believed in through “faith,” which means you trust in it even though it can’t be proved. Veganism is based on facts and logic. However, similar to religion, it is also based on ethics. Some of the ethics you might have as a vegan are:
            – unnecessarily killing for the sake of profit is bad
            – paying for something unethical because you like it is bad
            – all rape is bad and you can’t say “you can rape that one, but not that one”
            – exploitation of the female body is bad
            – separating a mother and her child against their wishes is bad
            – mutilation without even using anesthetic is bad
            – forcing beings to live in unsanitary conditions causing them to suffer from painful ailments is bad
            – killing beings because of their sex is bad
            – cruel and unnecessary experiments on beings against their will is bad

            It’s just strange to me that people try to ignore that veganism is the ethical way by looking for loopholes, such as that some people like junk food or some people don’t realize something kind of unexpected like most condoms aren’t vegan. Yes, vegans want to push their beliefs on you. If I see you beating a child in public, I’ll probably say something as well. I don’t condone rape, murder, gendercide, torture, slavery, or oppression. I just wish other people didn’t.

          3. Darinka

            April 14, 2013 at 8:01 am

            I could give you dozen of medical reasons which I UNDERSTAND, even although I’m 15 years old, on why veganism is unhealthy. If you wanna hear them, I’ll probably never check this blog again, but for starters check out info on why our body needs fat and essential amino-acids.

            I understand it’s cruel, but there’s no other way for us. Animals also kill each other in order to get food, the only difference is that they don’t keep each other in store until they need meat or products. By which logic you understand it’s necessary for them to kill for food, and isn’t for us? It’s natural for them and isn’t for us?

            As for the raising and exploiting animals, mainly female ones, they couldn’t go any other way. They’re domestic animals, they couldn’t live by themselves, we have to take care of them. Not that they owe us their life for it, but it’s pretty much like that with humans. If somebody is paying all your food and bills and everything, you work for him. It sucks, but it’s truth.

            Too lazy to make more sense now, and *looks at the clock in panic* gtg anyways.

          4. Vegan Hypocrisy 101

            November 8, 2013 at 2:36 am

            “Veganism is very different than religion.”

            No it isn’t. Everything you just spouted are lies wrapped in blind faith. You have no concept of “truth” or “reality” whatsoever.

          5. Tawny

            February 17, 2014 at 8:45 pm

            When we’re on the front lines trying to save billions of lives per year, damn right we’re not going to be quiet! Religion is believing something with no proof, theres proof of animal suffering everywhere. You people just don’t want to open your eyes…. OMG I can’t even read all this idiotic bullshit anymore. ” Animals eat other animals” our closet relative sharing 95% DNA would be the Gorilla, which a very muscluar and have huge canines…. VEGAN!

          6. Emily

            July 5, 2014 at 9:57 pm

            I have to say, I’ve been guilty of forcing my belief on others a lot, but in my experience it seems to go both ways. When you get a group of strong willed people with strong opinions on either side of the argument, it’s only natural they try to stick up for what they think is right. As long as it’s done respectfully, I feel like debate on the subject can be a healthy way of expression.

          7. Chris

            October 26, 2014 at 4:00 am

            @Tawny our closest ape relatives are the chimpanzee and the bonobo (96-99%), which are both in fact omnivores. There is plenty of physical proof that steers people toward religion; what they do in the name of religion…

            Where was everybody when farmers, agricultural and environmental organizations who humanely raised and killed livestock, grew diversified crops, and fought against pesticides and Monsanto were asking people to help keep their farms [whether by direct donation, the consumer dollar vote, or political votes against deregulation]? Quite a few prevalent health problems we face today could have been prevented by keeping our food sources simple and clean.

        4. Liz

          March 22, 2013 at 3:05 pm

          YES Jered, thank you!

        5. Basil

          April 22, 2013 at 3:39 pm

          I was vegan for 3 years and for the first 2 1/2 years i felt phenominal and my conscience was clean…. but then i started to lose my hair, bruising really easily, my nails were breaking and i was having crazy emotional outbursts. So thinking i had cancer or some other disease, i went to my doctor and had some blood work done….come to find out i was protein defficent. To the extreme. After freaking out about even considering to give up my lifestyle i decided to go to a nutriotionist, and what i learned (shocking i didnt already know this) is that our body does NOT store protein. Which explained the nails and hair. Where do vegans get the majority of their protein from? Soy and what does soy have in it? Estrogen, and when your diet it is mostly estrogen your body goes a-wall. Hence the mood swings.

          So all you hyped-up-on-estrogen vegans out there, calm down. No one is attacking your life choices, people are just trying to help each other in any way they think they can.

          No need to be all defensive.

          1. Isa

            July 10, 2013 at 10:19 pm

            There are a lot of soy-free non-deficient vegans out there. I have no idea what you have done with your diet, but there are plenty of plant based protein sources that have nothing to do with soy: red lentils, yellow lentils, chickpeas, all types and kinds of beans (and there are really hundreds), sprouts, nuts and nut butters like peanut butter, almond butter, cashew butter, hazelnuts, walnuts, macademia nuts, seeds like sesame, flax seed, hemp seed, sunflower seeds, pumpkin seeds. So these are the high-protein sources. There are still grains and grain-like plants which contain between 10 and 15 % protein, among them also these great sources of complete protein like quinoa, amaranth and buckwheat. But also other grains like wheat, barley, rye, millet, rice and stuff like that are a good source of protein, esp. mixed with pulses and legumes.

            Even plain old veggies contain some protein – not a lot, but it adds up. Esp. kale, collard, cabbage, chard, cauliflower, brokkoli and so on have a pretty amount of additional protein and amino acids.

            So really, no need to panic. If you personally didn’t eat this stuff then it’s your personal choice and your personal failure at this diet, not the way of the diet itself.

            Also the author claims that vegans don’t eat enough fats and saturated fats. Oh my… you can get fat (from too much fat) on a vegan diet as well as any other diet in this world. As a matter of fact I absolutely love almond butter with a bit of agave as it tastes like marzipan and there is A LOT of fat in it – lots of PUFA, but also a certain amount of saturated fat. Other plant sources of saturated fats: olive oil (I take it every day for salad), coconut oil (again, every day for cooking), palm kernel oil, cocoa butter (perfect for homemade granola bars), avocado and in smaller amounts also in other fatty foods.

            There ARE certain problems with a vegan diet, no way around it (esp. B12 must be substituted), but protein and fat are not. I would rather look into mikronutrient deficiencies like iron, zinc, calcium and in countries with less selenium also this one. That’s what you have to look out for on a vegan diet, not the macronutrients.

          2. Jess

            October 28, 2013 at 5:34 pm

            I agree that everyone is trying the best they can with the information they have. Personally, I agree that Veganism can be a healthy diet if you do it right. And, if you are to eat meat, at least know the truth about factory farms and then make your decision to go to a farmer’s market instead (unless you completely lack empathy, which makes you a sociopath, but that’s another story). Thank you for what you said about soy and estrogen, it makes a lot of sense for me and I’ll definitely try to consume a lot less of it.

        6. Joe

          May 5, 2013 at 11:58 am

          Stephen, it is the vegans/vegetarians who are telling the lies. The human digestive tract is not long enough to process plant matter over the long term. Herbivores have far longer digestive tracts relative to humans, some digest their food multiple times before excreting and many also have a special digestive organ that breaks down cellulose. While our digestive tracts are longer than pure carnivores, they are not nearly long enough to fully extract all nutrients from plant matter before excreting, we only digest our food once, and we have no organ for breaking down cellulose. Our digestive tract is that of a carnivore that has evolved to be able to tolerate SOME plant matter as a dietary supplement for when meat is in short supply. We are not meant to live solely on plant matter.

        7. Stephen

          May 10, 2013 at 11:04 am

          The Mediterranean Diet has been proven in more than 1 long-term study to be the healthiest in the world in comparison to all other diets/lifestyles. Can’t refute repeatedly confirmed, scientific facts. Nice try. You must be a liberal.

          1. B Dub

            May 22, 2013 at 12:34 am

            Too bad there there is no such thing as scientific fact, only scientific evidence. Google it to learn the difference and why knowing the difference is important. Use the right terminology next time so people won’t assume that you must be a dumb a**

          2. Vegan Hypocrisy 101

            November 8, 2013 at 2:39 am

            “Too bad there there is no such thing as scientific fact”

            And this is why nobody takes you scientirically-illiterate morons seriously.

        8. Erin

          June 11, 2013 at 10:07 pm

          The vegan diet is absolutely incredible. Avocados, olive oil, coconut oil and almonds are not always accessible or in season? Where do you live? In Alaska? All of those things can be found at any health food store. Animal products are addicting, acidic and inflammatory. Look up Anette Larkins and Mimi Kirk. Two of the youngest looking women in their 70s, and they are both vegan. Not a coincidence.

          1. Vegan Hypocrisy 101

            November 8, 2013 at 2:40 am

            Those women look exactly as decrepit and diseased as one would expect adherents to such an unhealthy and unnatural diet to look.

          2. Chris

            October 26, 2014 at 4:29 am

            I don’t know what the standard 70 year old is supposed to look like in this modern age, but Ms. Kirk looks like an elderly woman who remained sassy and stylish. The elders in my family (70+) look equally as good as (Larkins) or better than (Kirk) both of them. And would probably be just as healthy if they didn’t smoke nor have physically strenuous jobs.

            Being active, coping with stress and abstaining from harmful substances like tobacco, are important factors in staying healthy, along with eating well.

        9. Steve

          November 1, 2013 at 7:19 am

          How many grains does it “take”? The answer is 0, as they can feed from grass. How much are they given in practice is a different story.
          But they’re fed grains byproducts, which is what’s discarded after processing grains, unlike vegan’s common belief, it’s not the same grains humans eat.

          1. Maggie

            November 27, 2013 at 12:08 am

            Ellen Degeneres, Anne Hathaway, Lea Michele, Maggie Q…i can go on!

        10. Maggie

          November 27, 2013 at 12:07 am

          Guys, this is one of the most pointless arguments ever if you ask me. We could go on discussing this matter for ever. A Vegan diet CAN be healthy in the long run, just like a non-vegan diet can. Eating meat does not mean you will get cancer at 55 or die from a heart attack at 60, nor does not eating any animal products mean that you will have swollen eyes or bruise easily 10 years later. If you care about your diet, you will have good results whichever way you choose to go.
          The thing is, a vegan diet is a more thoughtful diet; to the animals, to the planet AND to other humans. A lot is hidden behind the meat and dairy industry that people don’t really know. So people who research this stuff and really care and want to do something about it, they go vegan. It is one of the most effective ways to change things. It’s so simple you guys! i don’t want animals to die any sooner than they have too, for any reason, therefore I DON’T KILL OR TORTURE THEM! end of story! MJ said it better “If you wanna make the world a better place, take a look at yourself and make a change”
          Ps. The guy with the username: Vegan Hypocrisy 101, if you have such a strong opinion about vegans, please contact me. i would love to talk to you

        11. david munoz

          January 5, 2014 at 9:59 pm

          Good Job Stephen! Well Said!

        12. leigh Caulton

          April 7, 2014 at 9:56 am

          Again Vitamin B12 is essential to the human diet. This Vitamin is only found in meat. So no scientifically Veganism is unhealthy simple.

          1. Mike Dearborn

            June 13, 2014 at 5:15 pm

            How is this B12 myth still being perpetuated?! B12 is a byproduct of bacteria that happens to be in meat. You can get B12 from licking an organic, “dirty” carrot. Or if you have healthy gut microbes you can synthesize it yourself. It is advisable to take a B12 supplement NOT because you don’t eat meat, but because you are too clean and you stomach has been nuked by poor eating habits, chemicals, drugs, etc. (Albert MJ, Mathan VI, Baker SJ. Vitamin B12 synthesis by human small intestinal bacteria. Nature. 1980 Feb 21;283(5749):781-2.)

        13. not an idiot

          August 20, 2014 at 10:02 pm

          So you’re saying we should plant more fruits and veggies. That would take miles of land to even make a difference to the veggie and fruit output. All this land taken would be killing animals habitat and killing a lot because they dont have homes. So now vegans would be killing animals too. A Question you vegans should be asking yourself is: Where would we plant fields and orchards if a lot of people went vegan? What would we have to give up? The space we need for all these crops just isnt there. In fact there isnt evenclose to the amount of space, with the right conditions to feed even america, on the planet.

      3. Kate

        May 25, 2013 at 9:24 pm

        This is rubbish. a Vegan diet is the healthiest and most sustainable diet ever! You must be deluded because keeping animals in cruel conditions and killing millions is not natural. There is heaps of scientific evidence that Vegans are the healthiest and they are the most immune to cancer, heart disease and other diseases too!
        I am 15 years old and have been a vegan for 6 years now. I was the first in my family to turn vegan. I am in the state tennis team and have got the most academic award in my school for the past 4 years. I won a big music competition late last year and i was invited to play at the Governors house last Friday night. I am a normal teenage girl who has lots of friends. A vegan diet does not affect any of this! And i am proud to be one!

        1. Vegan Hypocrisy 101

          November 8, 2013 at 2:41 am

          “a Vegan diet is the healthiest and most sustainable diet ever! ”

          Except for the fact that literally all evidence points to the contrary.

          But I’m sure you know better than scientists, being an indoctrinated 15 year old moron.

          1. Beth

            April 25, 2014 at 1:06 pm

            Vegan Hypocrisy you need to stop bashing everyone else and get off your high horse! I have a lot more to say but I don’t want to give you the opertunity to bash me…

        2. david munoz

          January 5, 2014 at 10:05 pm

          Congratulations Kate, and well said! This blog is just about a sad insecure girl that is trying to get attention, and become “popular” with the meat eaters! You obviously did not fall for the BS on this blog and are a great representative of veganism! Keep up the good work!

        3. Myself

          January 17, 2014 at 10:29 am

          So I guess you had no innocence or childhood at all.
          Do you remember being normal at any stage of your 15 years or were you a monster from the beginning?

        4. Myself

          January 17, 2014 at 11:01 am

          If you are so sorry about keeping animals in cruel conditions, then may I remind you that you are living in a land that is not yours, Ms Future Prom Queen, Dairy Queen a.s.o.
          You seem to forget that you keep the owners of your land in reservations. Those are noble people, unlike you who are not much more than the sorry descendents of the burps of Europe.

        5. drmilly

          July 2, 2014 at 11:31 pm

          Kate congratulations on your achievements. I suggest having a look at b12 and its function in the human body.

      4. Josh Matthews

        November 13, 2013 at 6:51 am

        FDo you seriously expect anyone of intellgence to see this as anything but a layperson’s opinion? It”s written in good English but obviously lacks scientific data. You don’t even know that cheese puffs aren’t vegan. You seem to miss the fact a book called,”Folks, That Ain’t Normal.” isn’t a scientific paper. The ancecdotal evidence that 75% of vegetarians start eating meat again is totally irrelevant to the healthiness of veganisml. I just hope people see you post for what it is: A layperson’s opinion.

        1. meshack

          August 16, 2014 at 4:04 am

          when a meat eating animal is obese the heart fails but we dont call elephants and hippos fat now do we?animal fat is death ooze, even after eating it feels like energy is being sapped, Im Xhosa and in the world i doubt theres a traditional culture that consumes meat like Ngunis do.the vitamin b12 argument is quite lame do rabbits need b12, do cows or gorrilas need it? or rather are humans such a compromised species that they have to eat other animals to be complete, eat the meat if you pine it and call it that, urges, dont now let your guilt make you want everyone else to indulge because soon, i know going to war is one of those next for you, you drew the blood and you must draw some more blood soon.

          1. Chris

            October 26, 2014 at 12:43 am

            Other rodents eat meat and another ape, the chimpanzee, eats animal product. And all the other non-herbivore land, air and sea animals? What are they – physically or morally compromised? Or are they doing what they are naturally wired to do by eating what their bodies require?

            The ancient human brain [according to scientists and anthropologists] required the addition of meat to advance in size, performance, and processes that resulted in our brains today. Our anatomy is designed to regulate breathing and heart rhythms so efficiently that humans are the best long distance runners. Scientists and anthropologists often suggest a link to the evolution (for lack of a better word) of the hunter.

      5. Mike Dearborn

        June 13, 2014 at 5:45 pm

        I really appreciate the emphasis on not supporting factory farms and going local, etc. But the sad truth is that 99% of the meat that is eaten in the U.S. is factory farmed. All too often people attempt to justify their meat consumption by presenting this idyllic 1%. If you ever eat meat from a standard restaurant or grocery store, then you are going directly against your morals and even financially supporting the industry. So my question for you is Lori, do you only eat meat that is pasture-raised, cage free, etc.?

    2. Dr. Archie

      July 9, 2012 at 5:11 pm

      Tammy, this article is not “excellently documented.” Lori cites a study from the 1920s and 30s and yet the food supply we eat now is not the same as it was in the 20s and 30s. Using 90-year old outdated evidence for current conditions is just plain old bad science. It’s called “cherry picking” – selecting “evidence” to back up your conclusion rather than non-prejudicially drawing a conclusion based on the most current, applicable evidence.

      1. Jen

        August 9, 2012 at 2:17 am

        I couldn’t agree more!

      2. kimbo

        October 12, 2012 at 10:18 pm

        yes, I have to agree, using one extremely old article to prove a very vague point is hardly convincing

      3. Troy

        November 2, 2012 at 11:35 am

        @ Dr. Archie,
        The study quoted from the 20’s and 30’s is and excellent reference and proves that the food back then is better than todays and if we want to be healthier we need to eat what our ancestors did.

        You said “the food supply we eat now is not the same as it was in the 20s and 30s.”
        That’s the point, it was better and showed that people who eat a vegetarian diet were not as healthy; today they are not any better because the food is inferior.

      4. Brooke

        November 10, 2012 at 2:57 pm

        I have to agree with Dr. Archie. The science of today points to eating healthy whole grains (NOT junk food or cheese puff), vegetables, fruits, nuts, seeds, and beans. As for Vitamin B12, omnivores have to supplement with this as well. And something not mentioned at all is that indigenous cultures may eat meat but they eat it in small amounts, not a big chunk on a plate like a steak or pork chop, more as a condiment than as a main part of the meal.

        And a point for those in a world where money is very tight and who live in areas without access to organically-raised, grass-fed beef and humanely raised chickens: trying to buy even small amounts can break the budget for a family.

        I have some good friends who are omnivores and they raise and slaughter their own cows, pigs, and chickens. I respect their choice, they know what their animals eat, they treat them well, and they make sure they do not suffer. They also eat whole grains and vegetable. That’s a healthy lifestyle, I’m sure, but it’s just not available to many of us in urban areas who happen to be single moms with 3 kids and broke.

        I don’t tell anyone else what to do, but being vegetarian and vegan is healthy, so long as you eat healthy grains, nuts, seeds, veggies, fruits, and beans. It’s easy to get enough protein and healthy fats in your diet (I live in the southwest, for example and I always have access to avocados and olives and make good use of them in my cooking). Sorry, I just don’t see a downside. And I’ve been doing it long term and my osteoarthritis is improving and my immune system is in better shape than in years past.

        To each his/her own as long as animals are not treated inhumanely. I’m just not one of those people who believe the animals were put here for us to eat.

        1. madeline

          November 20, 2012 at 7:55 pm

          I think (hope) the point previous posters are trying to make here is that nutritional science in the 20s and 30s wasn’t anywhere where it is today. You really shouldn’t use studies this old. Even if it is right, you still need a more recent study to back this up. (though, as a caveat, there are probably far fewer isolated tribal groups to study these days!)

        2. Ann

          January 1, 2013 at 8:32 pm

          News flash people, those “healthy whole grains” are killing people! Commercially grown wheat on 95% of the planet is a bio-engineered digestive disaster. It has 3x the number of chromosomes of the wheat our Grandparents ate. Do yourself a favour and read “Wheat Belly”.

          1. Dan

            February 6, 2013 at 12:12 pm

            You make a good point. Wheat products – even wholemeal bread – aren’t a good source of whole grains because enzymes from within the wheat cells are released when milled and baked, and start to break down the carbohydrates, turning them from complex to simple carbs and lowering their GI. But there are a good variety of others – I suggest a little research but from Wikipedia alone the list stands at: Common whole grains: oat, barley (hulled and dehulled, not pearl barley), maize, brown rice, farro, spelt, emmer, einkorn, kamut, rye, millet, quinoa, amaranth, triticale, teff, sprouted grains, buckwheat, popcorn(!)

        3. Joe

          May 5, 2013 at 12:02 pm

          Brooke, omnivores do not have to supplement B12 because B12 comes from meat and omnivores get enough of it from their diet. here’s a question that will boggle your mind, though. Can you truly call yourself a vegan if you are supplementing with B12 that comes ONLY from animal sources? If you’re supplementing with B12, then you are still an omnivore. Oh, and something else you should know, even animals that are herbivores supplement by eating insects and larvae. If the animals know enough that they need some animal sources in their diets, what’s holding you back from that realization?

          1. Isa

            July 10, 2013 at 10:26 pm

            The B12 for vegans comes from chemical factories. You may (rightly) argue that it’s not a very natural source at all, but it doesn’t come from animal sources. The development of a totally chemical synthesis for B12 was a process of long years, including two nobel prizes, but since 1972 it’s a well known procedure. So get your facts straight before you attack someone.

          2. Jana

            September 1, 2013 at 12:59 pm

            Bullshit. You would be surprised how many meat-eaters are B12 deficient. The only known organisms that manufacture B12 are microorganisms, primarily bacteria. These bacteria often live in bodies of water and soil. Animals get B12 by eating food and soil contaminated with these microorganisms.

          3. Maggie

            November 27, 2013 at 12:14 am

            I am so tired of hearing about B12. My friend, do you know what B12 is? it comes from freaking bacteria! it does not come directly from animals. Animals get it because they eat grass out of the ground. On the ground, there is dirt and bacteria; therefore animals eat the bacteria which is then transferred to you when you eat the animals. Take the animal out of the equation and you will realise that you can basically get B12 by simply eating something dirty like water from the tab or fruit and vegetables that are not really washed

      5. Suzie Q

        November 29, 2012 at 8:26 pm

        The fact of the matter is eating meat is healthy, being a vegan is not. There is plenty of scientific proof to support it. Just because a study was done a long time ago doesn’t mean it’s invalid. There are plenty of renown scientists through out the years. Are you saying that because the studies were done so long ago that they aren’t true anymore? She makes a good point. Why don’t you go look up why meat is healthy, and why not eating is bad. All meat is bad, being a vegan is unhealthy. There should be a balance between not meat products and meat to have a fully healthy diet.

        1. Austin A

          December 15, 2012 at 4:17 am

          The largest study on nutrition contradicts what you said. You should read the china study. The #1 killer in North America is heart disease. Dr.Esselstyn did a 20 year study on heart disease, the largest study of its kind and concluded that plant based diet which is oil free is the best for preventing and reversing heart disease. You should look at who the studies were funded by that conclude meat is good for you. They are probobley biased and funded by the meat industry. The largest studies ever done show that a vegan diet is healthy and that meat is not.

          1. Travis

            January 29, 2013 at 5:00 pm

            You realize the study your quoting has been considered seriously fouled by the vast majority of the medical community due to the inaccuracies of death certificates and causes of death in china don’t believe me read this

            http://yourdoctorsorders.com/2012/08/vegans-and-cancer-china-study-2/

          2. Joe

            May 5, 2013 at 12:06 pm

            Austin, the people of the Pacific islands and Pacific rim countries use tropical (red palm, palm kernel and coconut) oils almost exclusively in their cooking. These are the three big oils that we have been told for decades are the worst of the worst and yet the people who have been using those oils for hundreds of years are HEALTHIER than we are. They are less likely to suffer from coronary artery disease and are less likely to be obese. It is us here in North America and Europe who are the unhealthy ones and it all started when we abandoned using tropical oils and animal fats for cooking.

        2. Stephen

          February 6, 2013 at 12:34 am

          Vegan diet done correctly has more nutrtion in than any other diet on the planet for humans. People who tell you otherwise don’t know what they’re talking about. And should stop telling lies. And giving out disinformation. And instead of panicing they should start growing more fruit and veg! Check out nutritionfacts . org – they explain about what is healthy!

          1. yourkiddingright?

            February 21, 2013 at 5:26 am

            Adolf Hitler was a vegetarian…we all know how “right” he thought he was…..sheesh!

      6. eli

        December 29, 2012 at 11:46 pm

        is obvious we don’t need meat to survive i agree w vegans

        1. bullywee

          February 22, 2013 at 4:51 am

          Wrong, read earlier posted reply….Stop repeating a myth. Stalin was a meat eater, so was Pol Pot and a lot of other mass killers…

      7. To Dr. or not to Dr.

        January 5, 2013 at 12:55 pm

        Of couse you know your arguement is bullshit.. and putting Dr. in front of your name tells me a lot about your personality also ROFL. *cough* fallen upwards basterd *cough*
        Anyway research from back in the 20 / 30s proves more then it proves when we do the same research in our society since its full of chemicals.

      8. Stephen

        February 6, 2013 at 12:36 am

        Vegan diet done correctly has more nutrtion in than any other diet on the planet for humans. People who tell you otherwise don’t know what they’re talking about. And should stop telling lies. And giving out disinformation. And instead of panicing they should start growing more fruit and veg! Check out nutritionfacts . org – they explain about what is healthy!

      9. Eerie

        March 13, 2013 at 4:24 pm

        considering the health issues people are facing today compared to the 20’s and 30’s I don’t think that information should be so easily dismissed.

        Would be interesting to see an obesity study results from 30’s next to a current one.

      10. Bec

        March 14, 2013 at 6:28 pm

        its never been ‘just about eating’
        you may have had bad experiences but I assure you that most vegans I know (i am in australia), make choices for themselves (while accepting the choices of others and hoping for the same in return) will share their experiences and knowledge if asked but will also inform business owners of their presence so products that suit their lifestyle will more readily become available.

      11. Ladybohemia

        March 23, 2013 at 2:19 pm

        I agree. Even the fancy grass fed beef at whole foods is finished off with grain and inhumanely slaughtered. I am flirting with a vegan diet but would still eat the animals my brother-in -law hunts because it led the life the animal deserved and was killed instantly. The meat of today is tainted and produced in horrific conditions. So unless you visit the farm and see how it is slaughtered, I say no,no,no!

      12. Vegan Hypocrisy 101

        November 8, 2013 at 2:41 am

        You’re grasping way too hard for those straws, Archie.

    3. Joelene

      August 9, 2012 at 3:05 am

      I’m a vegan. The “research” here is really inadequate. I’ve heard uneducated opinions like this before & I’m getting tired of repeating the same things over and over so just to address a couple of mistakes:

      HEATLHY fats are easily obtained in a vegan diet from nuts, seeds, oils, avocados, coconut and to a lesser degree from most fruits & vegetables.

      The largest and longest study on diet ever completed (The China Study-Campbell) found on a global scale, diets lowest in or void of animal products yielded the lowest rates of diseases (all), and general better health & mental well being. On the other end of that, countries eating diets high in animal products had the highest rates of disease (all), general health problems & mental illness.

      Nobel prize winning FACT: Diseases like cancer cannot grow or survive in an alkaline environment, only an acidic one. Fact: meat & dairy are highly acidic and cause massive acidity in the body. On the other hand, most fruits, vegetables, nuts & seeds are highly alkaline forming, with only a few being neutral or slightly acid forming.

      Anyways, truly, it may have taken me years to understand this (and I do because I’ve eaten a vegan diet for a long time now) but eating a corpse isn’t good for your body or soul. You are literally taking in the energy of death. (not to mention pain, fear & suffering)

      For more info on vegan diet & health watch forks over knives or read The China Study -Campbell
      For more info on the Meat & dairy industry google Earthlings, it’s a documentary available to watch for free online. (narrated by Joaquin Phoenix)

      1. Jen

        August 9, 2012 at 3:10 am

        Perfectly said! You are telling the facts!

        1. Stephen

          February 6, 2013 at 12:37 am

          Vegan diet done correctly has more nutrtion in than any other diet on the planet for humans. People who tell you otherwise don’t know what they’re talking about. And should stop telling lies. And giving out disinformation. And instead of panicing they should start growing more fruit and veg! Check out nutritionfacts . org – they explain about what is healthy!

          Meat causes heart problems and cancer and is the most toxic food on the planet for human beings after dairy. Please stop eating dangerous food!

          1. Jered

            February 13, 2013 at 6:35 pm

            Stephen stop cutting and pasting the same garbage over and over. Some meat is not good for you… But fish, chicken, turkey IS good for you if it’s prepared correctly (I.E. not deep fried).

      2. BananaHorse

        August 22, 2012 at 6:28 pm

        “eating a corpse isn’t good for your body or soul. You are literally taking in the energy of death.”

        You were doing well up to that point. This quoted portion is so much nonsense as to call it pseudo-science would be an insult pseudo-science. Energy has a rigid definition that is totally unsuited to what you are even trying to talk about.

        I’m not attacking veganism, or any dietary choice here, just pointing what is unverified and unverifiable tosh.

        1. yourkiddingright?

          February 21, 2013 at 5:27 am

          exactly right :D

      3. Benjy

        August 30, 2012 at 10:28 am

        nobel price fact ! .
        The ph balance inside the human body is 80 to 20 .
        So if your food is made up out of 80 vegetables and 20 % the rest you will not cause cancer ! .

        Meat is not main reason of diseases babe :) its sugar and carbs and stress ofcourse :)

        About the energy of death , my teacher once’s was invited by the high lama’s in tibet and they slaughterd one of their cows to honor her , She was vegetarian and shifted at that point , Death ? life ? good things to meditate upon especially in a bhuddistic way ;-)

        There was a friend of mine who lived with tribes in french guinea and they where asking the vegans : ” why are you so rude to sister plant ? you praise brother animal and dont eat them ? why ? For us sister plant and brother animal are equal and we pay hommage to both “

        1. Stephen

          February 6, 2013 at 12:40 am

          Meat is high in trans fats and other toxins which are bad for the human body. please do more research!

          Vegan diet done correctly has more nutrtion in than any other diet on the planet for humans. People who tell you otherwise don’t know what they’re talking about. And should stop telling lies. And giving out disinformation. And instead of panicing they should start growing more fruit and veg! Check out nutritionfacts . org – they explain about what is healthy!

          Meat causes heart problems and cancer and is the most toxic food on the planet for human beings after dairy. Please stop eating dangerous food!

          1. yourkiddingright?

            February 21, 2013 at 5:27 am

            Adolf Hitler was a vegetarian…we all know how “right” he thought he was…..sheesh!

          2. Andrew

            March 31, 2013 at 9:04 am

            So were do you get yourb b12 from

      4. James Stanley

        September 8, 2012 at 3:57 pm

        The China Study was biased and bad science. It didn’t take account of regions that have higher drug use, higher tobacco use, regions near rivers with high levels of flourine and minerals, and it also didn’t talk about how even though the chinese has a low animal protein diet asians still have the highest rate of stomach cancer than any other racial group. And I’m sorry, we digested animal protein better than vegetable protein, that’s why animal protein is called, “high quality protein.”

        1. Marty

          September 12, 2012 at 11:32 pm

          This blog entry is bs. Let’s not forget the doctors out there that are healing patients of various illnesses using a vegan diet. Gabriel Cousens, Neal Barnard, Dean Ornish, McDougall, Esseltyne…etc.

          Also carbs are bad? Stop eating fruit then!

        2. Bea

          September 10, 2013 at 4:37 pm

          Fortified vegan cereals and milks contain b12. Also, I’d like to point out that I used to have anemia (low iron) and everyone said the only way to combat this was to eat red meat. I ate red meat and I did get less anemic. I also got a lot fatter, and even less healthy. Now I eat a vegan diet and I’m not anemic because of healthy greens like spinach. I also feel healthier and happier than ever. Being a vegan is no walk in the park, and sometimes it is hard to say no to unhealthy non-vegan foods, but it is soooooo worth it. I get to rest assured that no animals are being abused to feed me, that the limited resources of the planet aren’t being squandered by my unhealthy lifestyle and that I’m a healthier person.

      5. Ciara H.

        September 10, 2012 at 10:06 am

        very wellsaid .. this article is very bias

      6. H. Stokes

        September 13, 2012 at 2:06 pm

        Unfortunately, Jolene, your nobel prize winning Fact about an alkaline environment was debunked by the very same John Hopkins University cancer center that people were attributing the report to. http://www.snopes.com/medical/disease/cancerupdate.asp

        Not bashing veganism, just bashing incorrect facts.

        1. kimbo

          October 12, 2012 at 10:34 pm

          this website seems very unreliable and doesn’t make any strong points or research to view

          1. Mari

            July 17, 2013 at 9:33 pm

            this website is a blog.

      7. Dylan

        September 26, 2012 at 11:14 pm

        The reason why the nations that eat more meat had more disease was because they ate it every single meal and they ate the fast food and hormone filled cows. If you take the Greeks who eat meat a lot, they’re healthy. They eat more of the healthy meat and they don’t eat the processed crap.

        1. Brad

          December 27, 2012 at 1:30 pm

          Dylan,
          This is not accurate, mainland Greeks who eat “a lot” of meat have a myriad of health problems associated with western diets. The Greeks who are known to science to have disproportionately long lives include isolated island communities who eat mainly local vegetables and fish.

        2. Binh

          August 28, 2013 at 3:55 pm

          lol, by far my favorite retort so far!

      8. kimbo

        October 12, 2012 at 10:30 pm

        thank you for this intelligent comment
        It’s sad that people have to try to make themselves feel better about there shitty pain inflicting diets by bashing a vegan diet which is perfectly natural and has every nutrient you need.

        1. zen

          December 22, 2012 at 7:51 pm

          sadly, there is nothing natural about a vegan diet and no, it does not nearly fulfill nutrition requiements. you can do with supplements ofc but don’t throw lies around.

          1. Barbara Bankes

            May 3, 2013 at 12:27 pm

            Zen, you don’t know what you are talking about.

      9. slowdog

        October 23, 2012 at 1:27 pm

        I totally agree “Fork over Knives” changed my life. It made me realize whats going on in my own body and to make changes. Healthy Vegan.

      10. Free

        October 24, 2012 at 5:20 am

        Wonderful facts, gladly I am familiar with all of them, from information as well as being on the vegan diet…

        Another thing to add: it takes about 2 days to digest animals, so Definitely eating meat is draining your Energy.. practically, you’re dying one meal at a time..

        1. Jedavid

          December 13, 2012 at 10:36 pm

          I think it would be fine for everyone to eat as they please, just as long as they keept the extra carbon, poluted water,and deflorestation caused by their food choices over their own heads. The problem is every single food choice we make can influence the planet wether for better or worse. Raising catlle is many times more costly, polutent, and inefficiente them just eating the things we are giving pigs cows and chikens to chew for us.
          I advice vegans to convince others not by words but by exemple, just do your thing others will follow, don’t impose our view, just live it.

      11. Jane

        October 29, 2012 at 8:56 pm

        “…but eating a corpse isn’t good for your body or soul. You are literally taking in the energy of death. (not to mention pain, fear & suffering).”
        Did I miss something? Are plants not also killed for food? Does the energy of death not apply to plants for some reason? As for pain, fear, and suffering… look up Temple Grandin, and her work in redesigning slaughter houses. She’s done more to mitigate the pain and suffering of animals than all the vegans in the world.

        On the other hand, the idea that your brain needs fat isn’t fully accurate. The only source of energy the brain can process is carbohydrates (attn paleo dieters: cave men might have been physically healthier for lack of carbs and processed foods, but they also weren’t too smart). Let’s not forget the body readily turns carbs into fats.

      12. LA

        December 24, 2012 at 1:43 am

        you seemed to have missed the main point… SATURATED FATS, not just any fats. Yes, we can get coconut oil and sustainable Palm oil in our daily diet when bought from health stores now or we buy in bulk bucket from Tropical Traditions. But, Nuts, Seeds, Vegetables are high in PUFA (polyunsaurated fats). Not everyone can eat avocados and most nuts btw, like me. Your brain is mainly made of fat and cholesterol. The lion’s share of the fatty acids in the brain are actually saturated (per Dr. Mercola http://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2009/09/22/7-Reasons-to-Eat-More-Saturated-Fat.aspx)

        RE: “HEATLHY fats are easily obtained in a vegan diet from nuts, seeds, oils, avocados, coconut and to a lesser degree from most fruits & vegetables.”

      13. Anne

        January 20, 2013 at 7:27 am

        @Jolene: In my family, half are vegans and half are omnivores. The vegans ALL have some form of cancer. Keep in mind that these are the vegans who actually eat healthy food (not cheese puffs). They are also frail and look years older than they are. The omnivores in my family look a good 15-20 years younger than their actual age and have absolutely no health problems. I’m one of those omnivores. I eat plenty of meat AND vegetables. Unless you are allergic or have a particular medical condition, it’s best not to cut out an entire food group from your diet.

        1. Bea

          September 10, 2013 at 4:42 pm

          You’re disregarding that many people do it to be kind and to help save the environment. Furthermore, of course they look older if they have cancer! But being vegan didn’t give them cancer. Many people become vegan once they already have cancer, because its shown that veganism can help halt and even reverse cancer. As to your comment that omnivore in your family looks great and young – well I’d like to get an objective opinion on that.

      14. Lisa

        February 24, 2013 at 5:41 am

        Well said Joelene. Couldn’t have said it better! (I’ve been a vegan for 17 years and am healthy – don’t eat any junk/processed foods).

      15. Joe

        May 5, 2013 at 12:10 pm

        Joelene, vegans get their energy from death, too. Weren’t the plants you eat alive at some point?

      16. tatiana

        May 11, 2013 at 7:26 am

        I totally agree with you Jolene. I am not a vegan, but after college I weighed 83 KG. I returned to my mother’s house because it didn’t make sense for me to rent a place for four months in between. My mother is a vegetarian so I adapted to not eating meat for that time. I didn’t go out either so I really just never ate meat in those 4 months. However, I quit my diet and I was eating (in moderation but still) waffels, crepes, chocolate,… whatever was offered because being in Belgium for 4 months, I was not going to refuse. In three months I lost 12 KG that I never put back on! When I moved, I reduced my meat intake first by once a week, then by once a month and finally, after seeing earthlings, I stopped eating meat.

        I wish I were a vegan, but as with all vegetarians thinking about a cross-over, I just can’t fathom not eating cheese ever in my life. However, I take care that the cheese and eggs I eat are organic, because in Europe, it makes a considerable difference to the animal’s living condition.

        That being said, I am EXTREMELY aware of how beneficial to health veganism is in the long run. Human bodies are not supposed to process cow milk, that’s why, when we are born, we are given human milk (breast milk) because that is what is natural for us to process. Furthermore, in regards to cancer, it has been proven by several medical studies that milk actually feeds the cancer and meat promotes it, that’s why when my aunt was diagnosed with cancer, the first thing the doc told her to do was stop meat and milk. If you don’t feed it and you don’t create a friendly environment for cells to reproduce, you’re not really giving the cancer a fighting chance.

        As to what you’re saying about energy, I know everyone is fighting you on that but I get it too. Not so much the energy of death, but the pain and the misery. I know it’s not proven scientifically, and it doesn’t affect everyone, but you keep stuffing that sausage hole with meat that comes from animals living a lifetime of suffering, and that misery catches up with you. Stress affects our entire body, our muscles, our blood, our health, and it affects the animals in the same way. It’s safe to say that when some bastard is shoving a pitch fork in some cow’s vagina for his mere entertainment or cutting off the nose of a pig, that animal is undergoing some extreme stress that affects his/her whole body. And you’re eating that.

        In summary, I never try to get anyone off meat. I even think it’s great people don’t talk about how much the hormones in the meat are making people obese, or how much the medicine in the meat is making people resistant to their own drugs or how many people it kills off. Because at the end of the day, I am an environmentalist. And it is in the environment’s best interest to have as many people die off as possible, because this planet is overpopulated. So if you wanna eat meat, do, if you wanna smoke, do, if you wanna do drugs, please do. But don’t come here claiming it’s healthy and try to discourage people from making a healthier choice in their life, that’s irresponsible!

      17. Vegan Hypocrisy 101

        November 8, 2013 at 2:45 am

        Funny how you flailingly disregard peer-reviewed evidence as “flawed and inadequate”, and then turn around and cite a BS pseudodocumentary and a thoroughly-debunked, non-peer reviewed study put forth by a complete charlatan and funded by the PETA cultists.

        But then, it’s clear you’re a science-hating moron.

        1. Tiffany

          May 29, 2014 at 1:20 pm

          I’ve been eating healthy vegan (no junk food) my entire life and it has not effected me adversely. I’m a 5’10 woman in the healthy BMI range who finished in the 10 percentile at the NY Marathon. I know a plant based diet isn’t everyone’s cup of tea but to say all vegans are sallow-eyed emancipated waifs is also an untrue generalization.

    4. Lily Spinard

      September 11, 2012 at 4:32 pm

      Veganism prevents certain types of cancers and there has never been any recorded vegan suffering from obesity or diabetes after becoming vegan. In fact many people diagnosed with cancer and other illnesses that can be caused by dietary problems often chose to become vegan in order to be healthier and able to fight off disease. Vegans don’t only eat fruits and vegetables, that is a common misconception. We eat oreos, cake, chips, and many more types of fatty food, so not getting enough fat in a vegan diet is no excuse to not be a vegan. The statistics in this article a proven wrong by the china study. Remember the definition of a vegan is someone who doesn’t eat any animal products such as eggs, milk, honey, meat, Red 40 and so on.You should learn to not contradict yourself Lori, you stated you can’t be a vegan/vegetarian because they turn into junkatarians (eating lots of FAT and junk food) then you stated that vegans don’t get enough fat in their system. I am a vegan and I can assure you that we most certainly do get enough fat into our systems, but we also get our proper vitamins. For example to get the B-12 vitamin that you stated vegans take supplements for because it’s mainly found in animals, but actually can be found in yeast extract, soy milk, breakfast cereal and ect. I completely disagree and slaughtering animals and constantly forcing bulls to impregnate cows to produce milk and milk products is completely morally incorrect. Nobody would do that to a human because humans can defend themselves with words unlike our intelligent animal friends. Also a third of the worlds energy resources is wasted Now i’m going to eat my quinoa (a complete carb and protein) along with a delicious and nutritious fruit salad followed by a guilty pleasure of two brownies from the all vegan sticky fingers bakery (all fat and vitamins needed). I will be healthy for years to come because of my balanced vegan diet.

      1. Mike P.

        September 11, 2012 at 8:03 pm

        I agree. I am a vegan. People always tell me that ia dont get enough protein are fats. I am a teenager so I am growing alot and I have gained a very healthy amount of weight. Besides when your are eating animals, there are alot of unhealthy fats and other substances that sit in your stomach for years because your body cant digest them. Veganism and vegetarianism all lower your risk of cancer, diabetes, and cardiac disease, and obesity. Ever since i have become a vegan I feel more energized, Im not tired after I eat, my skin isnt as oily, and my digestive system just feels alot more clean.

        1. Dylan

          September 26, 2012 at 11:17 pm

          Mike, did you know that your body can’t digest raw vegetables properly. These fats are actually digestible because the structure is different from a plant cell structure. The plant cell structure is strong, while fat is weak, so it’s more digestible.

          1. kimbo

            October 12, 2012 at 10:36 pm

            raw veges and fruits are more digestible because the enzymes break the food down silly

          2. Joe

            May 5, 2013 at 12:12 pm

            Kimbo, fruits and vegetables contain cellulose and humans cannot digest that. Until we are able to fully digest cellulose, then we will never be getting full nutrients from plant matter. Plant matter also passes through our digestive tract too quickly to be broken down fully.

        2. david munoz

          January 5, 2014 at 10:25 pm

          Good Job Joe!

        3. Tiffany

          May 29, 2014 at 1:31 pm

          That’s a wonderful way to put it! When talking to my carnivorous friends they talk about feeling heavy and tired. I haven’t had a bad breakout since out of my teen years and yes! Feel cleaner!

      2. H. Stokes

        September 13, 2012 at 2:12 pm

        “there has never been any recorded vegan suffering from obesity or diabetes after becoming vegan”? I would love to know where you got the facts to make that statement. Obesity and diabetes can be caused by many factors, including fat, calorie and sugar intake as well as congenital and genetic dispositions. None of those are connected to eating meat. I personally know and work with a diabetic who has been a vegan for 20 years and a diabetic for 3 years. 17 years of vegan diet did not prevent the diabetes, so you may want to back up your statements with some real scientific facts. Too may people just swallow what the “experts” in the field of interest tell them without checking it themselves.

        1. Glen

          September 14, 2012 at 1:11 am

          Vegans don’t need “facts” – they have their dogma.

          They believe “The China Study” (The Book) is the same as the study… when it’s not. The book is NOT peer-reviewed. The Book is basically written with cherry-picked data to support Campbell’s animal-activist agenda. It omits entire counties worth of data, and only 39 of the pages are devoted to the actual study … the rest is off studies on rats, mice, etc., which are NOT humans.

          Also, the actual study didn’t come to any of the conclusions Campbell’s book does…

          But the dogmatic and brainwashed simply cannot admit that.

      3. Oahu Vegan

        December 19, 2012 at 11:40 pm

        Aloha to all,
        We all live in this world together for a VERY short period of time. I have been a Vegan for six years now and feel really good. My Doctor said, based on blood work and blood pressure, that I am the healthyist patient he has seen. I am sixty years old, play tennis six days a week along with Zumba classes, walking, riding bikes, or hiking I find no problem with energy.
        We need to live in peace, give people a break, eat what is right for you, and move on in life. Mahalo for listening

        1. Nino montoya

          January 23, 2013 at 10:53 pm

          I like your way of thinking C:

        2. izzie

          October 20, 2013 at 10:32 pm

          Thanks for your comment. I’m allergic to all nuts and some citrus things. A lot of people in my workplace are vegetarian or vegan and I am sick of being judged by them for eating meat. I know with my problems I would be able to live that kind of lifestyle. Everyone has their own reason for eating what they do, I just think no one should judge each other.

        3. double d

          February 1, 2014 at 3:33 am

          Be on the lookout. B12 is stored within the liver for 7 years. So in the next year or so you may start feeling some of that fatigue. Just make sure you screen for anemias with sublingual skin scrapings, CBC’s, homocysteine, etc. Also, see a doctor who can make sure you have sufficient stomach acid and gut integrity, both are essential for absorption of B12. Both of these are commonly dysregulated on vegan diets due to high levels of grain consumption.

      4. LA

        December 24, 2012 at 1:48 am

        Wow, another mention of China Study…. which was a good documentary, but incomplete in many obvious areas and too inaccurate to rely on it for your reason for diet. Methylation and genetics are a kety factor in why people survive and THRIVE on different diets. They key is also OPTIMAL Diet and THRIVING with more energy and vitality, not just surviving. Most vegetarians / vegans I’ve known were obese (too many carbs, too many nuts (high omega 6 pufa) and junk food) If it works for you, more power to you. But, to say it’s for everyone is incorrect.

        1. Stephen

          February 6, 2013 at 12:41 am

          Vegan diet done correctly has more nutrtion in than any other diet on the planet for humans. People who tell you otherwise don’t know what they’re talking about. And should stop telling lies. And giving out disinformation. And instead of panicing they should start growing more fruit and veg! Check out nutritionfacts . org – they explain about what is healthy!

          Meat causes heart problems and cancer and is the most toxic food on the planet for human beings after dairy. Please stop eating dangerous food!

          1. yourkiddingright?

            February 21, 2013 at 5:30 am

            Adolf Hitler was a vegetarian…we all know how “right” he thought he was…..sheesh!

          2. Joe

            May 5, 2013 at 12:14 pm

            Reposting the same comment over and over only makes you look like an ass. Stop it.

          3. Vegan Hypocrisy 101

            November 8, 2013 at 2:47 am

            “Vegan diet done correctly has more nutrtion in than any other diet on the planet for humans.”

            You’re either a blatant liar or have no idea what you’re talking about. Which is it?

        2. Barbara Bankes

          May 3, 2013 at 12:36 pm

          A recent study reported that nuts do not contribute to obesity, no matter how many one eats.

      5. Vegan Hypocrisy 101

        November 8, 2013 at 2:46 am

        “Veganism prevents certain types of cancers and there has never been any recorded vegan suffering from obesity or diabetes after becoming vegan.”

        Do you vegans EVER stop lying?

    5. madeline

      November 20, 2012 at 8:17 pm

      I have to agree with what some people are saying, if you are going to eat animal products, it needs to be dramatically less than what the standard American diet (and the heavily industry influenced food pyramid) entails. That said, there are benefits to eating small amounts of these products. I am a vegan for solely moral reasons, and I like that you made the distinction that this is perfectly acceptable. In the pursuit of what I FEEL is right, I am willing to give up some health. I would not eat a chicken until I am allowed to raise it (I live in a city.) Then if I could really bring myself to take it out back, wring it’s neck, de-beak it, pluck it’s feathers etc… then i could eat it. but I doubt I or many people who eat at KFC could really do that!

      I decided to stop eating packaged foods for my HEALTH. When I told a friend I was becoming a vegan she chimed “well, McDonald’s fries are vegan!” Being vegan doesn’t automatically equal health!!!

      I think what you eat is very personal and don’t tell anyone what to do, it is their body, not mine. I do hope to someday see the food pyramid changed and less meat/egg/dairy consumption because those poor animals really are living in hell at these giant factory farms. I honestly respect my friends and colleagues who eat sustainable dairy and meat because they are supporting farmers who care (more) about animal welfare. I don’t expect anyone to give up these products, to some it’s just the circel of life, but the unnecessary suffering, hormones, and antibiotics are all more than good reasons to think about who you’re buying from.

      But…DON’T JUST GO TO WHOLE FOODS AND ASSUME IT’S ALL GOOD! I’VE LOOKED INTO THESE BRANDS (even personally emailed them about their practices!) AND THEY ARE NOT WHAT THEY PROJECT LIKE 50% OF THE TIME!

      ok, rant over :)

      1. izzie

        October 20, 2013 at 10:39 pm

        I am personal friends with everyone who i buy meat from. I visit their farms to check all their animals are free ranging and healthy. I also observe how they kill the animals, the cattle are killed with a retractable bullet which is shot directly into the brain killing them instantly.

        If I wasn’t able to study and research these places and didn’t have allergies I would probably consider becoming vegetarian.

    6. Minorkle

      November 26, 2012 at 2:54 pm

      I was a Vegan for four years. 3 1/2 horrible years. The first six months were great as my body detoxed. Then all Hell broke loose. I became weak, pale and generally hard to be around. After years of denial and torture, I weaned myself back to a sensible omnivore diet. I am now happy and healthy. I have more friends now too, and some of them are almost normal.

      1. yourkiddingright?

        February 21, 2013 at 5:34 am

        Love it! I have friends who went either Vegetarian or Vegan 20+ years ago….. why is it that they are all ill now with blood sugar issues and yet i am not?…I just shake my head as they were warning ME about MY diet X)

        1. Barbara Bankes

          May 3, 2013 at 12:40 pm

          I know scads of people who eat a vegan diet and they are not having health problems or blood sugar issues. I think you exaggerate.

      2. Ladybohemia

        March 23, 2013 at 2:31 pm

        I’d be interested to know your blood type. Apparently O’s need to eat meat while B’s can be vegetarians. Not that I take credence in that diet but it is an enticing theory. I think diet comes down to the individual. I never hear about people experimenting on themselves, like being vegan for 6 months then going Paleo for 6 months and comparing solid science like blood work, and more subtle things like a diary of emotional health and physical symptoms. Boom! Problem solved.

      3. Bridget

        April 12, 2013 at 1:03 am

        You probably were missing a lot of nutrients because you thought you could just cut out animal products and otherwise keep eating the same. Unfortunately, it’s not that easy. You need to eat a lot of dark green, leafy vegetables and raw seeds, which I think is something a lot of people neglect when they’re first starting out. No one is going to feel well on just carrots and kiwi, right? Also, imitation meats and cheeses are not healthy. Healthy vegans aren’t soy junkies. You maybe also weren’t getting enough b vitamins. Nutritional yeast and similar things should help a lot. Google “vegan sources of b12” if you’re especially worried about that. It’s not difficult once you are properly educated and get the hang of it!

      4. Bea

        September 10, 2013 at 4:49 pm

        It sounds like you didn’t know how to be vegan. You could eat McDonald’s French fries for every meal and still be a vegan. But you’d also be an unhealthy idiot. If you eat a HEALTHY vegan diet which is balanced including lots of grains, legumes and leafy greens, you’re going to be really healthy. It’s a fact. It sounds like you were the type of vegan who stuck to potatoes and Oreos though.

    7. Hannarr

      December 17, 2012 at 3:42 am

      I think it’S ok to have an opinion, but you really shouldn’t say that a vegan diet IS unhealthy in the long run – it can be! but it’s not a given fact!! For example, I know a vegan woman that it over 80 years old and she is a vegan for almost 60 years now!!! And compared to many people the same age, she is in a perfectly good health condition. Therefore it’s okay to have a opinion about something, but you really should not point it out as the one and only fact! There are unhealthy vegans, but there are probably even more unhealthy meat eaters.
      ps ALbert Einstein most certainly also a vegan as well as Darwin and some other genius .. I don’T want to say that vegans are smarter than the rest, I only want to say: “What the hell is n”normal” supposed to mean?! Sometimes acting different can really make a difference!

      1. yourkiddingright?

        February 21, 2013 at 5:41 am

        Albert Einstein was a VEGETARIAN…towards the END of his life…hmmmm
        There is no suggestion that Darwin was a vegetarian – though unfortunately he appears on lists of ‘famous vegetarians’ on various websites. again.. hmmmm
        Also….dont forget about hitler X)

      2. Chris

        October 26, 2014 at 5:35 am

        Nutrition and encouragement toward learning in early life/development have a very strong influence on shaping the brain. Albert Einstein ripped off (did not credit) an Indian philosopher and other European scientists. For as long as I have been pursuing a collegiate education, the science professors have touched upon attributes of natural selection while being far more hesitant to tout the whole evolution theory.

        Vegan = vegetation; absence of animal products
        Vegetarian = vegetation, eggs, and animal milk
        Pescetarian = the above plus seafood (animals of the sea)

    8. Vic Torino

      January 9, 2013 at 3:07 pm

      I am writing this posthumously. My rigorous Vegan diet caused health problems that my previously healthy body could not cope with. RIP to me.

      1. Bea

        September 10, 2013 at 4:50 pm

        Wow, you’re stupid.

    9. Stephen

      February 6, 2013 at 12:33 am

      Vegan diet done correctly has more nutrtion in than any other diet on the planet for humans. People who tell you otherwise don’t know what they’re talking about. And should stop telling lies. And giving out disinformation. And instead of panicing they should start growing more fruit and veg! Check out nutritionfacts . org – they explain about what is healthy!

      1. yourkiddingright?

        February 21, 2013 at 8:08 am

        getting tired of reading this spam of stephen….so ill hit him and all the other diet nazis with this:

        “ Do you know that your Führer is a vegetarian, and that he does not eat meat because of his general attitude toward life and his love for the world of animals? Do you know that your Führer is an exemplary friend of animals, and even as a chancellor, he is not separated from the animals he has kept for years?…The Führer is an ardent opponent of any torture of animals, in particular vivisection, and has declared to terminate those conditions…thus fulfilling his role as the savior of animals, from continuous and nameless torments and pain. ”
        —Neugeist/Die Weisse Fahne (German magazine of the New Thought movement)[

        no im not sympathetic to hitler….my family sent guys over to fight the nazis like most canadian families did…..

        and i really am tired of the superiority expressed by the vegans towards people with a “normal” diet….. we are designed to eat as omnivores at varying degrees to one end (meat dominant-lots of fatty meats) and (meat supplemented-small amounts of fish and poultry)….and this? drum roll please? IS BASED ON GENETICS not social trends…
        think about it while you drink your imported chai tea

        the studies on food culture point very strongly to a tendency in the body to crave what your genetic ancestors sustained themselves on (with an interesting zest for what they didnt get much of IE:east indian foods being popular in scotland…so the Scots body may crave and need oatmeal,turnips and mutton BUT he/she will quickly fall in love with the more exotic flavours….going with the trends usualy arent healthy tho)…
        many vegans simply would not even be alive today if their ancestors didnt eat meat at all…and i would bank on it that no where in the world is there a single village that has been vegan for the last 200000 years. feel free to debunk that….but dont give me some imaginary place that died of starvation 199999 years ago X)

        with genetics in mind….. take an example from cultures in the extreme north….no crops of any kind….anywhere..for thousands of years..so these people have genes that make it easier to extract the nutrients contained in plants…FROM THE FATTY TISSUES OF ANIMALS…pishaw all you like vegans…but till you see a bunch of kids eating animal blubber like it was candy you cant tell me its wrong….and hmmmm no obesity..on an almost all animal diet ..go figure…

        now….the closer you get to the equator(not counting deserts….ummm whos people also cant live as vegans) the more the none meat foods come into dominance too the point of needing far less fatty proteins …oddly enough….still no exclusive Vegan cultures….not even in the very few places where everything needed is present to support a vegan diet…but…you will indeed find less need for meat…

        to say that genetics can be denied is to say it was perfectly OK for micheal Jackson to mutilate his own self to look more white…or what ever crazy notion he had….to me? that is what some of you are doing with your dietary health……

        many people get peircings and tattoos….ignoring the health risks…..i wonder how many of them are also vegans??? *COUGHS* i see lots of these people drinking LATTES(hello? thats got milk in it) at coffee houses wrinkling they noses cause im eating a cheese and bacon scone with my mundane coffee…. again…trendy is not allways healthy :P…. i also see them later in the hospital i work in when one of these trendy self mutilations gets grossly infected )

        all that being said? i will leave this discussion with my personal thoughts and feelings…
        1)I believe we are omnivores… i need not post a link to support this….
        however….I DO feel, with the exception of those living and recently decended from regions where crop growth was nil, that most of us eat a fair amount more meat than we actualy need…..a big juicy 12 ounce steak may be tasty as hell…. but could also be trimmed up and sliced down to add to a bombin stir fry…enough meat for a family of four when done properly….

        2)there is actualy a fair bit less “waste” on foodmeat production than people think….nearly every bit of a cow/pig/chicken whatever is used to make actual food for human or pet consumption (yes vegans….if we stop farming animals for food your pet cats and dogs will indeed starve) what dosnt get used for food gets added too the vast amounts of compost vegetables generate before being food ready and indeed…helps it become soil faster (circle of life…lol)….I feel both vegans and omnivores have good points and omnivores are making more effort to comprimise…..

        3)the health risks of steady diets of grains,cornmeal,legumes and raw veggies are becoming more evident…..grains spike insulin levels and put the body in fat storage mode(genetics..remember?) , cornmeal causes some really nasty digestive cancers…any one up for anal cancer? ,in short….we havnt been grain farmers nearly as long as omnivores…..most legumes simply cant be eaten in an unprepared form at all(so same as meat there) and most raw veggies are digestive system struggles with….cmon folks….you can see corn in ya poop..and thats cooked….. here i do feel no food should be left out….but when you have too much of any one as a staple food its simply bad…its as much about a varied diet as a balanced one..

        4)obesity comes from over eating,little physical activity and ignorance…..i dont mean the kind of ignorance that comes with being an asshole…no i mean the kind that comes from not knowing or refusing valid info…… its easily cured (in most cases).
        i EAT..ok…i EAT a fricken lot…i go to a smorg and the owners face goes pale….
        i eat what i want/crave….and a lot of it! not once do i ever worry and count calories……what do i do ? do i work out? not a bit…i used to….i simply dont stop moving..and i look at any physical demands as a chalenge and do it for fun and to feel younger….some would say my ideal height/wieght ratio is the direct reflection on my health? im 5’10.5 ft tall,aprox 170 lbs…exactly where i should be….i eat like a horse and work hard..balanced diet according to the canadian food guide….hmmmmmmmmm…..my “feeling” here…same as i told a guy who was worried he was ruining his life with being an alchoholic : “guy walks into a doctors office and says doc! it hurts when i do dis!” i responded with….well den stop doin dat!”
        listen too your body ffs! recognize the difference between doritos for pleasure and meat for need ;)

        5) and final…… GOD DAMNIT! all you are a bit right and mostly wrong!…i mean both sides! how? cause you are both biased…..the vegans are actualy on attack mode…despite the nature of this blog….and the omnivores are too defensive! and need to be like i was 20 years ago…..they(the vegans) said “you’ll see!”..indeed i have…..my health issues didnt change…..theirs got worse…..i been hearing both sides for longer than some on both been alive….hey…to the omnivores….dont let these twits stress you out…..to the vegans? when the meat runs out? we be eatin you…..nothing personal……its just the smart animal thin to do……

        1. Barbara Bankes

          May 3, 2013 at 12:52 pm

          Michael Jackson did not make his skin white. It is a condition that happens to some dark skinned people.
          Lattes can be made with almond, soy or rice “milk”. Do you know what was in the lattes that your vegans (“these people”) were drinking?

          1. Joe

            May 5, 2013 at 12:20 pm

            Barbara, you are wrong. Intaglio (that’s what the disease you are thinking of is called) causes blotches on the skin, it does not cause the whole body to go white. MJ had his skin lightened.

          2. Chris

            October 26, 2014 at 5:54 am

            Vitiligo is the skin condition Michael Jackson was said to have had. It is a loss of pigment and occurs in patches. Other issues can include sun sensitivity. Michael used make-up along with a skin bleaching process available to wealthy Vitiligo sufferers to gradually lighten his skin. I recall hearing that the coroner’s report stated Vitiligo was visible on parts of his body that were kept covered by clothes.

            Michael and his team said he had vitiligo and that he used make-up. An older gentlemen who suffers from vitiligo said he was aware of the skin treatment and was informed that MJ was likely using it.

    10. Holly

      March 16, 2013 at 10:02 pm

      If you wish to believe this then that is your choice but please do not mislead and misinform others. I would love for you to compare some blood test results of a vegan and a meat eater and see who is healthier. I’ve never heard of a vegan dying of a heart attack or high cholesterol, have you? And actually, the vitamin B12 is found naturally in the soil and that is why it is found in a cows milk, because they eat the soil with the grass. If we simply would eat fresh organic vegetables from the soil then we would also have this vitamin. I have been vegan for a year and am not B12 deficient, nor am I deficient in any other vitamin. Animal fats are not healthy for you, and it’s a shame that your telling people otherwise. Meat takes up to THREE days for your body to digest it, so clearly it puts strain on our digestive tracts and is hard to digest. Also, did you ever stop and ask yourself why all other carnivors or omnivores eat their meat raw, and can still eat it when it’s old or rotting with out getting sick? Humans are not able to do this, and no one would ever want to because it’s not in our natural instincts. If your saying that we are made to eat meat, then why don’t we hunt animals with our bare hands and rip then open with our teeth to eat like other meat eaters? Because it is not in our nature.

      1. nanarc

        March 29, 2013 at 9:19 pm

        B12 supply stored in liver is up to 3 years. I think you might need to supplement in time, but wait to see what happens. I’m a vegan for ethical reasons, but I respect any other diets.

      2. Trisha

        July 16, 2013 at 6:56 pm

        @Joe
        ……………
        You must mean Vitiligo?

      3. Ryan Han

        July 16, 2013 at 9:50 pm

        Holley, you might want to supplement with B12. The animal/agri farming has destroyed the B12 in the soil. Even the animals are now supplemented with B12. So even the meat eaters are actually getting B12 supplements.

      4. Emily

        July 17, 2013 at 9:43 pm

        Heart attacks are caused from heart failure, which in turn is caused by dozens of different things. My Uncle was vegan for all but 10 years of his life and died of a heart attack at age 47 so get over yourself. I respect all diets, so stop being an idiot.

    11. Evelyn bradley

      April 13, 2013 at 4:00 pm

      Really this is all symantics to me, plenty of things are unhealthy and I’ve chosen to do them anyway. It’s a lifestyle choice about animal welfare not health. Most vegans are not vegan because its healthy, being Vegan is about not participating in a cruel unethical world. The cruelty that people inflict on animals is the stuff of nightmares and shows how barbaric and unevolved we are. I would rather be unhealthy and happy knowing I do not give a penny towards cruelty.
      Thinking you can eat meat and butter and that this does not cause suffering is absurd and just denial. What most non vegans don’t like is that veganism is a morally superior position to adopt on the issue of using animals as a commodity. Well get over it, it is!
      If being healthy is your priority over compassion and society, that’s your choice but its shallow, sorry but thats a fact, not an opinion. Sacrificing some things are worth it. You can’t have dairy without cruelty

      1. jessica

        March 11, 2015 at 1:47 pm

        Veganism is not morally superior, lmao! You guys use palm oil (read it in the above comments) and that product depletes the forests that SUSTAIN tigers, elephants, and orangutangs. So basically, some of you are helping to harm animals. Not only that, but every time someone references the land required to sustain a vegan population would actually harm indigenous animals, flora, fauna, and even people total silence on the subject. So , no, you are not superior to me or any other omnivore.

        I watched a horrific documentary on factory farming and have been researching ever since to find some way to minimize any animal product consumption, but when I search I consistently read posts by vegans verbally ripping into someone as,”You cannot claim to love animals and eat them, you murderer!!!!” That ideology is flipping asinine. I am a humanitarian too, but should someone come at me with three degrees of crazy I will F%$#K them up – doesn’t mean I hate humans…..

        This is new to me. I have largely been more involved in intersectional feminism advocating for the rights of children, reproductive rights, etc. Listening to you guys spout off how animals don’t have a choice in the process makes you sound like pro-birthers….Yes animals are innocent, yes they should be cared for and treated with respect, but to demonize those who still want meat (but in the most human way possible) only retards your movement and any progress made.

        I read how giving up meat a few times a week would make a huge difference in demand, and that’s what I was going to try and do and phase myself into a new lifestyle. But you guys are relentless.

        Either you want to save animals, or you want to peacock strut around with moral superiority. You cannot have it both ways. And you guys also might want to consider those who cannot afford quinoa or kale on a tight budget with two children to feed, maybe all she can really afford to feed them are 1.99 hot dogs…..every one has a story, stop acting so friggin perfect

    12. Bob

      June 3, 2013 at 5:26 am

      I say the following: Did God create me? Yes. Was my creation perfect? Yes. So why do I then have incisors? They are there because my died should include meat. Its as simple as that. Our diet should include both plant and animal products.

    13. J

      June 11, 2013 at 9:12 pm

      I only skimmed this article because I’m sure I’ve heard it all before. You don’t want to get into a debate about animal ethics? How convenient just bypass the whole reason most vegans choose to go vegan to benefit your argument. How can you discuss veganism without acknowledging why people do it? Just because you have Internet access and have read a few articles online or whatever doesn’t make you an expert or give you authority.
      Even if what you do say is true, maybe that’s the sacrifice some people make for their morals. People sacrifice elements of their health all the time for less. Smoking, alcohol, eating junk food. None of which are illegal. People do these things for no benefit to anyone else. Get off your high horse. If some vegans want to eat in a certain way because they are ethically opposed to cruelty let them.

      1. Trisha

        July 16, 2013 at 7:25 pm

        Please tell us more about your incisors and how they’re made for ripping into flesh? Compare them to, say, a dog’s incisors, or a lions. Or even to the OMNIVOROUS chimps and bonobos! See how outrageously long all of those ‘canines’ are?
        Our mouths have more similarities to cows mouths. Dull, short, and straight incisors are not made for ripping into flesh. Humans have to masticate animal meat to a pulp if they want it to slide down easily. The number one food product that people choke on? Meat. Our teeth are much more adept to shredding vegetation.
        Someone also mentioned something about our intestines being shorter than herbivores. Ours are HUGE compared to OUR body size. You can’t compare the individual lengths of intestines from a goat and an elephant and say the goat should OBVIOUSLY eat meat because its guts are shorter! Herbivores in general have intestines about 10-12 times the length of their bodies. Guess how long ours generally are? 10-11. A lion? 3-6. And the grand majority of omnivores? 4-6.
        You want to talk biology? Humans are more suited for foliage than flesh.

        1. Trisha

          July 16, 2013 at 7:29 pm

          That was geared toward Bob by the way. J, I agree with you on so many levels.

    14. Karen

      June 21, 2013 at 8:07 am

      Thank you for this post. I was a happy vegetarian for six years (pastured eggs, honey …. mmmm…), and an unhappy vegan for one of those. Try as I might, it just never felt natural for me. I gained tons of weight, probably because i was eating all the fake meat, which is super processed, and looking back, really disgusting and unhealthy. I also was of the camp that well since I’m not eating meat I can eat these “healthy organic” chips, cookies, etc. Ugh. Don’t get me wrong, I love a good vegan meal (like a bean stew) made with real whole foods. But when I decided to lose the weight and begin working out with cardio and strength training, I realized that eating the most cared-for meat possible (sorry i never could fully feel right saying that any slaughter is “humane”) — not to mention cutting way down on gluten, which makes me feel bloated if i have too much these days — was the way to help lose fat and gain lean muscle. I was afraid I would lose my beautiful, glowing skin (which I also attribute to sunscreen and tons of water, pretty much all i drink besides coffee and unsweetened ice tea), but no … still have gorgeous skin :-) When I ate the SAD in my early twenties and earlier, that’s when i suffered from terrible skin (for the first 22 years of my life I ate all CAFO products not knowing any better as dare I say most of us did…sadly…). So all that to say that now, I focus on a paleo-ish diet with fermented products (like organic greek yogurt), whey protein, low-fat cheese occasionally, and TONS of fruit and veg (organic GREENS!!) and stuff like quinoa. Very little gluten, and I don’t eat meat every day three times a day. Maybe two or three times a week, and lots of pastured eggs. I have energy for hours when I eat a balanced meal containing pastured/grassfed meat and/or eggs. I also have found that I don’t need to eat ten plates full to feel satisfied. I savor smaller meals. I hope this is helpful as regards the discussion. Thanks for reading to the end!

      1. Ryan Han

        July 16, 2013 at 10:01 pm

        I don’t get it. So you admit to eating crappy, junk foods as a vegan, then blame it and go back to eating meat? If you ate so much fake meat, then you never put an effort to being a vegan.
        Eat humane meat? There’s no such thing. Free range eggs? Do some research and you’ll see that it’s another marketing scam by the egg industry.
        Don’t try to appease your guilt by making excuses.

        1. Emily

          July 17, 2013 at 8:45 pm

          Would you all stop fighting already!? You are all acting like a bunch of four year-olds!!! If you are all so smart, and do so much research, then you should all know enough to just grow up and stop acting so immature!!! I’m 13 and I am more mature than you guys. Leave Lori alone! THIS IS HER BLOG NOT YOURS!!! SHE POSTED THIS BECAUSE SHE WANTED TO AND SHE CAN!! IT’S NOT YOUR BLOG IT’S HERS, SO LET HER DO WHAT SHE WANTS ON IT!!! I’m sure you guys would want to be able to do what you want on your blog if you had one, and not have people telling you the whole thing is wrong and telling you that you need to do more/better research. If you do have a blog I’m sure you don’t like/wouldn’t want people doing this to you. The article all in all is well written with evidence I’m positive could be backed up with the right amount of research. I found no grammatical errors or spelling errors whatsoever. And if you guys want to put her down for anything, (which makes no sense whatsoever of why you would want to), it should not be as bad as you guys have been putting it. It’s called constructive criticism not lets tell her the article is completely wrong! If she had made a few mistakes O.K. However, this article is half opinion. We all have an opinion, so stop trying to make everyone believe that yours is the best one, and start caring about other people except for yourself. This is a very diverse world, and not everyone is going to be vegan, vegetarian, or someone who eats meat. Don’t bring religion into this because it is just wrong, and can be offensive to many. I will support people in whatever diet they choose, because it’s not about what someones diet is like, its about who they are. People are all different so everyone’s diet is going to be different. If you want to voice your opinion that is great!! Go ahead and voice it!! But don’t put someone else down because they believe something different than you, because i’m sure you wouldn’t want that to happen to you. Thank you Lori for writing this article. I personally am indifferent about veganism. Thank you Lori for writing this article. I read it for no real purpose but it was very well written (this is all coming from someone who writes at a advanced high school level) and I enjoyed reading it. Thank you very much.

        2. david munoz

          January 5, 2014 at 10:32 pm

          Ryan, exactly what I was thinking, this girl is confused! If she ate a healthy vegan diet she would get all that she needs to be weight appropriate and healthy!

    15. Jacob riley

      August 19, 2013 at 4:10 am

      Well you blagged your way through that one. Might want to look at other unbiased research too. It’s not possible for vegans to have any healthy saturated fats? You must think we all live of lettuce lol. Tend not to read comments on this subject because what would a non vegan know about eating a proper vegan diet. Nothing. Look at healthy I am and you’d probably go wow what has he been eating the past 7 years I got to get me some of that

    16. Um

      November 12, 2013 at 10:38 pm

      You lost me at “cheese puffs… aren’t an animal product.”

    17. Martin

      May 18, 2014 at 7:14 pm

      People love to hear good things about their bad habits. Why bother to verify information quality, if it corresponds to what you would like to be true? If you did you might find unpleasant things, like: I can’t, in good conscience, eat animal and animal byproducts for my health, nor my social and ethical sensibilities. Have some courage! Try and falsify your beliefs everyday, and after a couple years look at what remains. I challenge you.

    18. Lila

      June 7, 2014 at 5:34 pm

      Oh yeah, so it’s so healthy to fill your body with flesh and tendons, chicken periods, and cows’ breast milk that is filled with puss and infections. So not. It is untrue that vegans are only carb eaters. We get our fat from vegetables like avocados and many others. It is extremely easy to get your protein from plants. Actually, 5 grams of broccoli has more protein than 5 grams of stake. And, the human body was meant to be herbivorous. Evidence for this is that our teeth move back and forth in a grinding motion. So, you are 100% wrong.

      1. Lila

        June 7, 2014 at 5:37 pm

        and also, you obviously have no compassion for any other living things but yourself, maker of this website. Since you are a rapist, a baby stealer, a murderer, and you help in the process of grinding billions of chicks up alive by giving your money to the egg industry. You also are causing 55% of world pollution. How can you sleep with yourself? I say this to all meat, dairy, and egg eaters.

    19. Stefanie Bolton- Vasquez

      July 14, 2018 at 5:50 pm

      I have lactose intolerance and I recently saw my Primary Care doctor at the Primary Care clinic at Denver Health Hospital because of my concerns about my lactose intolerance and because I keep getting sick to my stomach whenever I eat dairy products. She said that it sounded to her that I am about to cross the thin line between being moderately lactose intolerant and become severely lactose intolerant if I don’t start cutting back on my dairy food intake and she has given me orders to start the process of becoming a vegan. I am doing this for health reasons. There are some people in this world who due to medical reasons and because they are on certain medications who cannot eat meat-based diets and must eat plant- based diets. Your article has been written because you’re a backwards thinking person.

  2. Franziska

    April 12, 2012 at 12:39 pm

    Hi Lori, I always like reading about different opinions on this matter, so thank you for sharing your view. I didn’t read the book and the links that you share in this article, but I’m wondering about this: on one hand you say a vegan diet is not healthy but on the other hand t sounds like a vegan diet (not the junkfood kind) could actually be healthy, only if you add enough fats to your diet. Of course there is still the B12 problem, but it doesn’t mean that somebody would have to go back to a mainly meat and dairy diet for this right? I’m just being curious here :)

    1. Lori Winter

      April 12, 2012 at 3:18 pm

      Hi Franziska, I think the 2 biggest things to remember about any kind of diet are to eat real food and listen to your body. Certainly not everyone will require as much meat as others, but I do still believe that grass-fed, pastured beef, butter, etc. are incredibly nourishing and contain vital health-boosting, cancer-fighting, hormone-balancing nutrients. Even I don’t eat a ‘mainly’ meat & dairy diet, even though I know my body responds well to more protein. A wide variety of vegetables, fruits, nuts & seeds, clean protein, and healthy fats is essential!
      Thanks for your comment and your curiosity :)

      1. yourkiddingright?

        February 21, 2013 at 8:11 am

        lori…. i tink if we ever met i might like a hug! you are bang on hon
        \

    2. Parker day

      July 30, 2012 at 12:26 am

      No, this article is painfully poorly researched. B12 is derived from bacteria. In a vegan diet, this means fermented vegan food, i.e. kombucha, nutritional yeast, tempeh, natto, etc. Sea vegetables also contain B12. Some people leave traces of dirt on their home grown vegetables for their B12.

      1. Jen

        August 9, 2012 at 2:16 am

        You’re totally right.

      2. Erin

        August 14, 2012 at 10:21 pm

        NO! Look, I used to believe all of that crap too! I was vegan/vegetarian. It’s NOT TRUE! You’re treating this blogger as if she has no backup, no evidence. I’d like to see yours! You state all of this evidence, but don’t give the source! Please, whatever you do, if you have children, don’t believe that crap! If you want your children to thrive, you have to feed them the way humans were meant to eat, which includes meat products; at the very least consult a nutritionist! Eating other animals is a part of the circle of life. People are afraid of the cycle because it entails death. You cannot escape death; even by refraining from “eating death”. Mother nature has control over you, not the other way around! Humans need to stop trying to fight her and just accept the circle of life. The funny part is, so many vegetarians think they are doing just that. But, how can you be a vegetarian (not the natural human diet) and not believe yourself better than say, a lion? I cannot get into the depths of the philosophical meaning of morality, but I must say that a “holier than thou” attitude toward any living thing does not create peace for anyone or anything. If you can find ACTUAL, credible, scientific sources of evidence for your claims, then more power to you. But, if you fail to research it or base your research on biased evidence, then good luck on the path you have chosen. Perhaps you will find that in fact, this blogger is not so wrong in her assertions after all.

        1. yourkiddingright?

          February 21, 2013 at 8:12 am

          dude…… just remember vegans will be food when crops die :P

          1. Mary

            July 18, 2013 at 2:38 pm

            when crops die, what are the animals gonna eat that will be the meat on your plate?

      3. ICYNDICEY

        September 6, 2012 at 2:13 pm

        Yeah…that’s what I want to do…eat fu**ing dirt to get my vitamins and nutritional needs met. GROSS!!! Vegetarians are so deluded and screwed up in the head it’s not even funny. Most of them always look sick and emaciated.

        1. Lisa

          October 9, 2012 at 10:40 am

          That’s not a fair assertion. I’m totally anti-vegan/vegitarian because I think it’s against the natural order of things. I also agree that it is not ecologically sustainable. However, I know PLENTY of vegans (personally and professionally) who are neither emaciated or sickly-looking.

          1. yourkiddingright?

            February 21, 2013 at 8:14 am

            true hon……but i know plenty that ARE sickly…….after 20 years im feeding them a big portion of crow (with ketchup….im not heartless)

          2. Ryan Han

            July 16, 2013 at 10:11 pm

            Vegan diet is not ecologically sustainable?
            You do know that vegan diet requires 1/3 rd of the land, 1/12 th of water. Whereas raising animals for food requires 16 pounds of grain feed to get 1 pound of meat, and is the #1 contributor of environment pollution?
            And how is killing 56,000,000,000 animals a year unnecessarily ever justified?

        2. bullywee

          February 22, 2013 at 4:59 am

          Yes, Carl Lewis looked so sick and emaciated when he was winning Olympic golds and breaking world records (drug free, unlike his rivals of the time), just to name one of many top sportsmen and women who are vegan or vegetarian…
          Not heartless? No? Your words certainly suggest otherwise…

      4. Dylan

        September 26, 2012 at 11:22 pm

        Actually the bacteria goes away on the products you’re talking about. It was also greatly researched too. I know my Grandpa who visited Guam said that the people there needed the meat in their diet. Though they ate cat, which in my opinion isn’t good for certain reasons, he said that they’re very healthy.

      5. Joe

        May 5, 2013 at 12:23 pm

        Bacteria are part of the animal kingdom. B12 from bacteria is no different than milk from cows or honey from bees. It is still an animal product.

        1. B Dub

          May 20, 2013 at 4:35 am

          Hahaha! Thanks for giving me a laugh at this hour in the morning! Bacteria are definitely not part of the animal kingdom. They’re prokaryotes. Animals are eukaryotes. I hope you weren’t serious, or are you trolling the vegans?

          1. Mari

            July 17, 2013 at 8:48 pm

            If your up so early why don’t you do some research and see if what your saying is even true, and stop being a jerk!!!!!

    3. Lily Spinard

      September 11, 2012 at 4:35 pm

      A third of the worlds energy resources is wasted on shipping slaughtering and processing animals.

      1. Lisa

        October 9, 2012 at 10:43 am

        Rubbish. What about the produce and grains that are harvested, processed, packaged and shipped throughout the globe?

        1. Alex

          November 3, 2012 at 9:07 am

          These grains are harvested, processed, and shipped in much larger quantities in order to feed live stock in the first place.

        2. Bea

          September 10, 2013 at 4:55 pm

          It takes far fewer resources to grow crops than it does to grow meat. Period.

    4. Holly

      March 16, 2013 at 10:08 pm

      Just replying to your question about B12. The vitamin is found naturally in the soil, and so if you eat fresh organic vegetables you won’t have a problem with this! Eating natural and healthy is key, not eating processed animal products.

      1. Joe

        May 5, 2013 at 12:24 pm

        Just because something is in the soil does not mean it will appear in vegetables grown in that soil.

    5. Lila

      June 7, 2014 at 5:41 pm

      Franzisca, don’t listen to her. With a meat-based diet, you have a 50% higher chance of getting cancer when you get older, this is just as cancerous as smoking. This is a new research study that was proved to be true. Do you really believe in torturing defenseless beings who deserved a peaceful life for 5 minutes of your palate pleasure?

  3. Kim Kalmanir

    April 12, 2012 at 1:11 pm

    I appreciate your guts for writing this! A vegan diet has its place to help nourish our bodies and get back on track if we’ve been relying on processed foods but it is not sustainable for the environment or our bodies. I absolutely agree with you that we are designed to eat animals to sustain ourselves but we need to be respectful and responsible with what we are given. Thank you for writing about this topic

    1. Lori Winter

      April 12, 2012 at 3:19 pm

      Thanks Kim! I love how you put that: “we are designed to eat animals to sustain ourselves, but we need to be respectful and responsible with what we’ve been given.” Right on!

      1. Pola

        August 11, 2012 at 10:39 am

        Lori, why do you comment only on the posts which “praise’ your article? And why do you tell people that they are right if they are not? We are not designed to eat meat! This is the best argument meat-eaters have and they stick to it like a bear to honey! Please, before you say things like that educate yourself (everyone)! I appreciate your article, but it has false info. And this is not fair towards vegans/ vegetarians.

        1. Lori Winter

          August 11, 2012 at 11:16 am

          Hi Pola,
          When someone says something kind to you about something you’ve written, don’t you want to say ‘thank you’? As far as responding to comments that oppose my viewpoint, it’s obvious that we don’t agree. I’m fine to agree to disagree and I have no interest in starting an argument. I do appreciate your comment though!

        2. Erin

          August 14, 2012 at 10:27 pm

          Oh, so we’re not designed to eat meat? Please enlighten me. Are you a scientist on this matter? If not, I’d just like to point out that perhaps it is YOU who is sticking too closely to YOUR opinion! I’ve “educated” myself on BOTH sides of the story, and having been both a vegetarian and a vegan in the past, I think it is reasonable to say that I’m not uneducated on the matter. I’m a tad obsessive, and when I get into researching something, I REALLY do it! My interest in philosophy supports a strong sense of reasonable doubt with which I can find, make and justify arguments. Perhaps you should educate yourself. You should practice what you preach after all!

          1. Mikewalt

            August 31, 2012 at 4:38 pm

            We arent designed to eat meat, here is why
            We have an enzyme in our saliva that breaks down carbohydrates, only herbivores have that.
            Animal protien makes the blood acidic, and would kill us, so pur body takes calcium phosphate from your bones, the phosphate neutralizes it, and we pee out the calcium. We have canines for biting into hard fruits, and most herbivores have them. Also go kill a squirell and eat it raw (you dont get to cook it, other carnivores, and omnivores do not have fire to cook) and you’ll get sick. Our intenstines are the same length as herbivores, and omnivores/carnivores have super short intestines, to push through the animal flesh. Also put a small bunny and an apple in a room with a 3 year old, if he eats the bunny, and plays with the apple, youre right but humans contain 0% carnivorous instincts, no you didnt research

          2. VulpesRex

            September 11, 2012 at 12:29 pm

            @Mike – 2 billion years of evolutionary biology would beg to disagree with you.

          3. Joe

            May 5, 2013 at 12:26 pm

            Mikewalt, our intestines are NOT the same length as herbivores. Our intestines are shorter. Our intestines would have to 3x longer than they are to even come close to being able to extract full nutrition from plant matter.

          4. Ryan Han

            July 16, 2013 at 10:20 pm

            How does someone become a former vegan? You were following a plant based diet for your health, you weren’t a vegan.
            A vegan is someone who does it mostly for ethical reasons. Please don’t confuse vegans with those who follow one diet after another.

        3. Dylan

          September 26, 2012 at 11:27 pm

          Pola, there’s where you’re wrong, we were meant to eat meat. If you believe in the Bible, God gave us power over animals. Not to mention that God himself ate meat, well Jesus did. Why would animals be put on this earth if we weren’t suppose to use them as food?

          1. Betty

            October 1, 2012 at 6:15 pm

            Bible basher says what?

            Genesis 1:29
            Then God said, “I give you every seed-bearing plant on the face of the whole earth and every tree that has fruit with seed in it. They will be yours for food.”
            Romans 14:21
            It is better not to eat meat or drink wine or to do anything else that will cause any man to stumble.
            Daniel 1:11-16
            Daniel then said to the guard whom the chief official had appointed over him: “Please test your servants for ten days: Give us nothing but vegetables to eat and water to drink. Then compare our appearance with that of the young men who eat the royal food, and treat your servants in accordance with what you see.” So he agreed to this and tested them for ten days. At the end of the ten days they looked healthier and better nourished than any of the young men who ate the royal food. So the guard took away their meat and the wine they were to drink and gave them vegetables instead.
            Acts 15: Do not eat the flesh of strangled animals.
            Acts 18: 18 Paul says that he has taken a private vow. Many scholars believe it was the same vow taken by Samson.. a promise to God not to eat the flesh of innocent animals nor to cut his hair.
            Proverbs 12:10 The righteous one is concerned for his beast.
            Exodus 20: 13 Thou Shalt Not Kill
            Hosea 2:28: I will make for you that day a covenant with the animals.
            Genesis 6: Noah was commanded by God to provide vegetarian food in the ark for people and animals.

          2. Lisa

            October 9, 2012 at 11:25 am

            Studies are one thing, but I take exception to selecting small snippits of scripture to suit your agenda.

            How about taking this one in context?
            Romans 14:20-22 > Do not, for the sake of food, destroy the work of God. Everything IS INDEED CLEAN, but it is wrong for anyone to make another stumble by what he eats. It is good not to eat meat, or drink wine, or do anything that causes your brother to stumble…Blessed is the one who has no reason to pass judgement on himself for what he approves..

            Further, the beginning of that chapter states (depending on the version you’re reading): “As for the one who is weak in faith, welcome him, but not to quarrel over opinions. One person believes he may eat anything, while the weak person eats only vegetables. Let not the one who eats despise the one who abstains, and let not the one who abstains pass judgment on the one who eats, for God has welcomed him.” (Be also aware that the “meat” spoken of is in fact kreas, a Greek word to describe meat sacrificed to idols. This speaks more of love and spirituality than food allowances.)

            Deuteronomy 14:1-29:
            “These are the animals you may eat: the ox, the sheep, the goat, the deer, the gazelle, the roebuck, the wild goat, the ibex, the antelope, and the mountain sheep. …”

            Also, the original translation of Genesis 9:3 mentions that “…every moving thing that is alive shall be food for you; I give all to you, as I gave the green plant.” (For the person who talks about our need to cooking food being unnatural: we were instructed NOT to eat flesh with its life (blood). American Indians and may other native tribes globally eat/ate raw meat from animals who were just killed in an effort to take in/honor their spirit. I of course could not do this , because I lack the immunity since neither myself or my recent forefathers participated in this practice. In short don’t abstain from eating raw meat because I would die from it, (although I probably would) I abstain because it is not part of my culture/belief system.)

          3. Chris

            October 26, 2014 at 8:15 am

            Genesis 3:23 (banished from Eden)
            Genesis 4:4-5 (Abel’s fat offering)
            Genesis 9:1-6 (As Lisa said God permitted man to eat meat without lifeblood; it would need to be cook. Blood offerings were reserved for the Lord. Leviticus through Deuteronomy instructs the Jews how to prepare offerings and food. God enjoyed the aroma of cooked animal fat.)
            Acts 15:29; 1 Corinthians 10:14 (Pagans would also use blood offerings, but then eat the bloody meat. Not eating bloody or sacrificed meat would have distinguished early Church members from the Pagans.)
            1 Corinthians 6:12-7:5 & 10:23-33 (Both sexual immorality and food consumption are discussed in Acts 15 and echoed scripture. And both issues are elaborated on in 1 Cor. The tones of these letter are quite different)
            Matthew 15:11-20 (Jesus speaking)
            Acts 11:1-10 (The dietary laws were to keep the Jews distinct from other tribes, discipline them in preparation for the fulfillment of prophecy, purify their bodies for God’s work. The symbolism of the dream reflects for NT readers that Jesus is the fulfillment of prophecy and purifies the soul for God’s work.)
            ? Acts 18:18 – the strength of Samson’s hair was unique to Samson. And Paul CUT his hair before leaving. Do historians mean it may have been a symbol of not relying on his own strength?

            1. The general killing of animals is not a moral issue for the God of Jewish or Christian doctrine. Humans eating meat is not a moral issue for God. (Exodus 20:13; Meaning murder of fellow human beings. See Gen 4 when Abel who killed the first born of his flock is murdered by Cain. Or Gen 9 when God gives man animals to eat but says not to kill each other.)
            2. If you are in the welcomed company of someone and there are things that highly offend them or they feel more strongly about than you, like swearing, smoking, taking shoes off in the house, or not eating meat, just be considerate. It’s easier for someone with wider boundaries to accommodate somebody [to a degree] who has tighter restrictions. Don’t smoke and swear around me and I’ll happily share a delicious veggie meal with you…anytime…I love food either way.

          4. jessica

            March 11, 2015 at 1:57 pm

            for all those quoting the bible – using a book of origination stories is NOT evidence……stop with religion….it’s useless and pointless and justifies the killing of anything and everything…..

        4. Michelle

          October 15, 2012 at 6:21 pm

          We are designed to eat meat. All you have to do is look at our teeth to know that one. We also do not have multiple stomachs that most herbivores have to break down the cellulose that is found in plants. It is really not that hard to understand.

          1. Alex

            November 3, 2012 at 9:23 am

            Firstly, “designed”?
            Secondly, Most herbivores to not have multiple stomachs, and if you compare our teeth to actual carnivores lets say a cat, you would quickly notice the difference.
            Thirdly, our teeth go back millions of years in our evolutionary history, and do not seem to support your claims. Our premolars and molars show a pattern of vertical force that have been shown to most likely be related to chewing harder substances in times of open savanna ie. underground storage organs and nuts, whereas our canines in our earliest ancestors have facets and a space called the diastema to slice leafy plant material, that has gone away perhaps for meat eating, but more likely to to accommodate our vertical crushing opposed to grinding foods.

            Lastly, I would love to see you take down another animal with your “fangs” and “claws”.

    2. Anne

      August 9, 2012 at 12:22 pm

      I am curious in which way do you believe we are “designed to eat animals”?

      1. Trev

        August 21, 2012 at 9:15 am

        We are designed to eat meat. If you’ve ever studied prehistoric archaeology, you’d know that before farming was invented (roughly 30,000 years ago), anatomically modern humans had diets high in fats from meat, and were ‘hunter-gatherers’, who gained the bulk of their nutrition from said meat, and occasionally ate nuts, vegetables, and grains. If you tried to have a vegetarian diet in those conditions, you would likely die younger than your siblings, because meat was more available. Since this is the diet humans have been eating for around 200,000 years instead of 30,000 years, from an evolutionary perspective, it would make sense that our bodies would be better-equipped to process it, than to deprive ourselves of an evolutionarily favored staple. From a biological perspective, our brains actually require large amounts of saturated fat, and the best way to get those fats (and the best quality of those fats) is from grass-fed animals raised in somewhat natural conditions.

        1. Lenore

          September 11, 2012 at 7:15 am

          Just because our ancestors ate meat to survive in harsh and scarce conditions does not mean that we still have to today. We are so technologically advanced now that meat and other animal products are not necessary to our survival. Enough products are available to ensure that anyone on a lifelong vegan diet can survive AND be healthy. That was obviously not the case 30,000 years ago. Everyone here seems to keep saying “a vegan diet is healthy, but needs saturated fat, which is available in vegan sources, but that’s just too inconvenient.” Come on. Meat has a lot of saturated fat, yes, but does that mean that we should give up on veganism all-together based on this reason alone? I don’t think so.

          1. VulpesRex

            September 11, 2012 at 12:44 pm

            @Lenore – The problem is that many Vegans are also animal-rights PETA-nazis. Simply surviving on a vegan diet is not enough for them. Proselytizing is not enough for them. They want legislative changes to eliminate animal products from the market altogether based on their personal “ethics.” The problem is that the science doesn’t support veganism being healthier. For some, including children and the elderly, it can be quite harmful (http://www.nytimes.com/2007/05/21/opinion/21planck.html). No one is saying that everyone should give up on Veganism. Lori is simply stating that Veganism is not healthy for most people over a long period of time.

            Personally, I don’t really care whether someone wants to be vegan, raw vegan, vegetarian, ovo-lacto, or omnivorous. You have the right to make that choice. Just respect the right of other people to choose a diet with animal products.

        2. Debrah

          September 21, 2012 at 9:01 am

          And those hunter/gatherers (with the emphasis on hunter) had much shorter lifespans than we do now.

          1. Debrah

            September 21, 2012 at 9:07 am

            And those hunter/gatherers (with the emphasis on hunter) had much shorter lifespans than we do now.

            And in response to Vulpesrex link about the ‘vegan’ baby dying, how meaning meat eating parents have been responsible for the malnutrition deaths of their children? One incident does not constitute proof that a vegan diet is harmful to children. Any so called ‘diet’ can be harmful to children if it isn’t balanced. Look at the epidemic of obesity among children. Quite possibly, every one of them is from a meat eating family. According to your method of determination, that far outweighs the harmfulness of a vegan diet.

          2. Lisa

            October 9, 2012 at 11:39 am

            And the fallacies in these arguments continue. Is the fact that we have longer lifespans due to dietary differences, advances in medicine, or a combination of both? You can’t say that because they ate meat and had shorter lifespans, then therefore meat must be bad for you (or vice versa). There are too many factors to draw this conclusion.

            Also, I don’t think Vulpesrex was saying that the vagan diet is harmful to children. What I gathered is exactly what you said, it shouldn’t be FORCED on anyone since it can actually be harmful to some people (depending on the situation and circumstances) like any other diet. The point is not to force your way of thinking down anyone’s throat as the “HEALTHIER” choice.

          3. Jedavid

            December 13, 2012 at 11:07 pm

            Response to VulpesRex. feeding a 6week old baby Soy milk and aplle juice isin’t VEGAN, it’s just STUPID, the poor bastads were victims, their baby died, they should have been informed and educated and a message sent to others.

          4. Joe

            May 5, 2013 at 12:32 pm

            And those hunter-gatherers also had to contend with sabre toothed tigers and other large predators with only sticks and stones to defend themselves with and had to climb trees to escape instead of having a secure home they could go to to hide and had no medicine to heal injuries or cure diseases. You’d die young under those conditions, too.

        3. kimbo

          October 12, 2012 at 10:59 pm

          evolution, means we’ve changed

          1. Joe

            May 5, 2013 at 1:14 pm

            There’s no proof of evolution.

      2. Rachel Taylor

        February 23, 2013 at 10:51 pm

        The reasons why humans evolved is because they started eating meat.

        1. Bob

          May 7, 2013 at 8:16 pm

          Rachel,

          You obviously do not understand evolution if you can make such a general statement to claim it was sparked by one thing such as meat. Yes, there still are some cultures (inuits) who need the amount of fats animals can provide without the ability to cultivate crops but to make such a claim is idiotic and offensive to someone who studied science and who’s degree is in science. Please stop feeding other idiots lies. thanks

      3. Softly Bob

        February 28, 2013 at 11:39 pm

        No we don’t take animals down with our teeth because we are tool users. That’s what our hands are for. A Lion cannot throw a spear that’s why he has protruding canines. We don’t have squirrel buck-teeth incisors either do we? Probably because we don’t crouch down next to plants and eat them straight out of the ground with our teeth.
        We are omnivores, designed to eat BOTH meat and vegetables!
        The fact that vegans need to create websites/ books with lengthy explanations of how to eat vegan properly, how to balance your diet, how to combine certain vegetables together, how to take supplements, how to do it all properly, how to mix the right foods, proves that it’s not natural.
        I’m sure that you could survive on meat alone if you were taught how to do it properly – don’t cook it, serve it raw, eat this bit, don’t eat that bit… blah. blah.
        No one needs to teach an omnivore how to eat or what to eat. We do what comes naturally! Veganism is not natural and not normal.

    3. Bob

      May 7, 2013 at 8:13 pm

      Kim,

      What research (obviously none) has you done to make a statement as a vegan diet not being sustainable for the environment? If you understood the amount of land dedicated to producing beef, the fact they we feed animals that we eat more than humans (we have well-fed cows while millions starve everyday). Please take some time to research and learn something about the effects of consuming animals on our environment. And Lori, what is your expertise that you can make such a claim?

    4. Lila

      June 7, 2014 at 5:43 pm

      A vegan diet is sustainable for our environment. Actually, the pollution from animal agriculture causes 55% of world pollution. And 50 billion factory farmed animals are mercilessly slaughtered so you can have a bite of their flesh. Do you really believe in this?

  4. Tania Davis

    April 12, 2012 at 2:34 pm

    Interesting perspective, but just to play devils advocate how do you handle the research that says the opposite from Weston A. Price? I am not a vegan, but I have decreased my intake of saturated fat and animal products to reduce cancer risk.
    Here is some of the research: http://www.cancerproject.org/survival/cancer_facts/meat.php
    I have a anti-cancer food blog called Connoisseur 4 The cure @ http://www.connoisseur4thecure.com.

    1. Kaylee

      May 3, 2012 at 12:46 am

      I am curious about this as well… after reading The China Study and watching Forks Over Knives, I stopped eating meat and dairy (with the exception of occasional seafood… I don’t consider myself a vegan because of this) and have been eating a whole foods, plant-based diet — cancer runs in my family and if I can prevent it, I will. I must say, I feel great. I wasn’t eating much processed food beforehand either. The biggest change I noticed was my skin — I’ve had acne forever and I’m convinced that eliminating dairy has cleared me up.

      1. Dylan

        September 26, 2012 at 11:34 pm

        Actually the fact that you’re only eating certain foods did it. The dairy didn’t cause the acne, it’s some of the grease from greasy foods that cause it. If you were to eat just baked turkey breast for a year then you would still notice no acne. It’s hamburgers and fried chicken that can cause that.

    2. honore

      September 6, 2012 at 8:35 pm

      I was a vegetarian most of my life and have been a vegan for a long time. I don’t remember the last time I had a cold (I think in 2000, after returning from an overseas trip). I’m neither sickly nor emaciated. I do, however, have ideal blood panels, low blood pressure, and overall perfect health (I’m in my mid 40s). To say that being vegan equals eating junk food without dairy, eggs or meat sounds a little, well, dense (sorry). This is called simply a “bad diet”. And to those praising the paleo type diets: here is a news’ flash for you. People evolve, and so do metabolisms, digestive systems and environmental conditions and influences. Fact: humans (the ones living in the 21st century) do not need to eat animal protein or fat to be healthy. And neither our digestive system (length of our intestines), nor our teeth are those of carnivores. If you want to have your steak and eat it too, be my guest. But don’t write nonsense about diets you obviously have a very distorted and uneducated view about. And this has nothing to with “agreeing to disagree”.

      1. Dylan

        September 26, 2012 at 11:37 pm

        So you’re saying if we can cut out meat, then we can cut out food altogether. If we can take supplements for meat, we can take supplements for vegetables too. So you’re stating that we shouldn’t eat meat, and now I’m saying we shouldn’t eat vegetables either. We should go without eating and only use supplements. Your theory is incorrect.

        Plus we can’t digest raw vegetables.

        1. Bob

          May 7, 2013 at 8:21 pm

          Dylan,

          Your rebuttal on not needing to eat vegetables due to their inability to be digested resides in some fallacy you invented in an idiots brain. What science do you even understand, nevermind, none.

    3. Glen

      September 14, 2012 at 1:15 am

      You realize “The Cancer Project” is simply a PETA-sponsored off-shoot, right? It’s part of the PCRM – which was started by Neal Barnard, a non-practicing psychiatrist who is an animal-activist PETA-member, has been on several PETA-boards, shares office space with PETA, has PETA employees and is funded in-part by PETA and in-part by their brainwashed minions, right?

      Their “science” is biased and in many cases, simply wrong.

  5. Marie

    April 12, 2012 at 5:47 pm

    I think any way that you eat can either be healthy or unhealthy. Given the abundance of evidence showing how much healthier a vegan diet (done correctly) is to a diet containing animal based foods, I don’t think you’re correct in your statement that a vegan diet is not healthy.

    I’ve been a vegan for over 15 years now. I’ve never felt better, had more energy, or looked better. I can’t tell you the number of people that have gone vegan because of the example I have set.

    I believe once more people are vegan, and eating the proper way (not a junk food vegan diet) we’ll have more proof that vegans live longer and are healthier all around. I think those people that go vegan and “deteriorate” aren’t eating properly, just like the millions of people on this earth that are in the hospital fighting a disease, take more than one medication to keep them alive, have heart transplants, die prematurely, etc. Look at our nation and its health statistics alone and tell me eating animal based products are the way to go.

    I’m sorry, but in the long run, you will be eating your words (or a plant based diet to ensure your survival).

    1. E.W

      April 13, 2012 at 10:02 am

      Marie,
      I whole heartedly agree with you. After watching Forks Over Knives and reading Engine 2, I decided to take my health into my own hands. I suffered from extreme chronic fatigue and chronic headaches. Since eliminating dairy and meat, I feel like a completely different person. To not wake up with a pounding heardache and having the energy to keep up with my children is absolutely wonderful.

      Different ways of eating may not work for every person, but plant strong is the best for me :)

      1. Lori Winter

        April 13, 2012 at 10:04 pm

        E.W. & Marie, Thanks for your comments! I truly am glad to hear that you have more energy and have gotten rid of migraines. More plants and less junk is a fantastic thing! But I am curious – what kind of meat and dairy were you consuming before you eliminated them completely from your diet? Conventional CAFO beef and pasteurized skim milk? I ask because those ‘foods’ have a vastly different nutritional profile than grass-fed, pastured beef and raw whole milk. Those foods are incredibly nourishing and actually aid your body in absorbing vitamins and minerals from fruits and vegetables.
        Also wondering – as a vegan, do you supplement with B12?

        1. E.W

          April 15, 2012 at 10:40 am

          Hi Lori,

          I was eating organic grass-fed beef, chicken, eggs, raw milk, and butter from a couple of local farms near me. I wasn’t eating the SAD. I do take a vitamin b12 supplement.
          I didn’t mean to imply that your way of eating is wrong. It simply wasn’t working for me, though my DH thrives eating the same as you.
          Thank you for your blog posts. I do enjoy reading them :)

          1. Friendly Reader

            September 17, 2012 at 2:33 pm

            Hello E.W

            I was reading your comment about migraines. I had a strange situation a couple of years ago where I developed an allergy to dairy protein (so a good quality cream or butter was fine). These migraines were so bad that I would temp lose my vision. I had to cut out ALL dairy from my diet…very sad, but not only did my migraines disappear, my skin cleared as well. To make matters even more strange…..a year later, my allergy disappeared and now I can eat all the dairy I want. Not sure what the dealio was…perhaps my stress in my life at the time made my body freak out. It would be interesting to see if you have created an allergy? Either way, glad your migraines disappeared…they are painful

        2. Jacek

          November 1, 2012 at 3:14 pm

          Hi Lori,
          You probably know about the fact that diabetes is virtually incurable but … I would like you to watched the documentary “Simply Raw: Reversing Diabetes in 30 Days:” These are the facts. And another similar document: “The Gerson Miracle” This is what vegan diet does. Simple, Take care

    2. Karly

      April 13, 2012 at 3:51 pm

      Our country has replaced nourishing foods with battery eggs, hormone & antibiotic laced meats (who are fed corn & soy (both GMO crops) instead of grass) processed “convenience” foods, margarine, and an abundance of white flour & sugar.

      Eating meat it not killing people. Nasty stuff that is not fit for human consumption is killing people.

      If people knew better and demanded better, veganism wouldn’t be getting the attention that it does. But nobody is making money if America is healthy…

      1. Dearlylovedaimee

        November 14, 2012 at 4:26 pm

        Well said Karly!

      2. Nino montoya

        January 23, 2013 at 11:09 pm

        Well. Said. Ms.k

    3. Jen

      August 9, 2012 at 2:19 am

      I couldn’t of said it better!

    4. Jen

      August 9, 2012 at 3:13 am

      This is so true Marie!

  6. kat

    April 12, 2012 at 6:08 pm

    What studies have you read in regards to a plant based life style that were not written by an omni?

  7. Kym Hogan

    April 12, 2012 at 8:03 pm

    I think you have cherry-picked all the information to suit your point of view, and left out all the evidence of healthy vegans and of vegan diets being healthy/healthier than meat and dairy diets. Lots of people get sick, vegans and meat-eaters, so how can you pick on the vegans who get sick but not the meat-eaters? All the vegans i know who eat properly and do tgeir research are thriving, whereas the vegans who eat junk get sick. Eat healthily and you will have great health on a vegan diet, it all cones down to education on how to do this.

    1. Karly

      April 13, 2012 at 3:42 pm

      There is a HUGE difference between “normal, american” meat eaters (who have cheesey puffs and instant mashed potatoes with their hormone & antibiotic laden burger (on white buns) and then have cake for dessert.) and meat eaters who seek out organic, grass-fed meats, eggs & milk.

      HUGE difference…

    2. Softly Bob

      February 28, 2013 at 11:51 pm

      Why does anyone need education just to eat? I could survive on a diet of fresh air alone if I did my research. I could intravenously inject nutrients and live off a drip for the rest of my life if I studied it for long enough – that way I could survive by eating nothing at all.
      Veganism is not natural and not normal. It requires research and study (and quite often artificial supplements) to get it right!
      You shouldn’t need to be taught HOW to eat. I’m an omnivore. Nobody needs to tell me how to prepare and eat a bacon sandwich, nor a vegetable salad for that matter.

  8. Shannon

    April 12, 2012 at 8:34 pm

    Hi Lori,

    Thanks for sharing your view. The world would be a boring place if we didn’t have differences of opinions :)

    However, there is much evidence to the contrary of your argument (Dr Gabriel Cousen’s book Conscious Eating is a great book to read).

    There’s also a long list of reasons I could write in favor of following a balanced vegan diet, however, the one thing that I really think needs to be brought up is the fact that it’s not right to eat another being. Animals not only have faces, but eyes that are windows to their beautiful souls. They also give birth, just as we do. They have offspring to which most of them bond. It’s a known fact that cows cry out in horror as their calves are ripped away from them. Animals certainly weren’t put on earth for human beings to treat like a smorgasbord, regardless of how they are “raised”.

    It is fact we can not only survive, but thrive on a well-balanced vegan diet. I’ve been vegan for five years, eating extremely healthily and have never felt more vibrant and alive. More than that, I can sleep at night and walk the earth knowing I have done nothing to harm another being. It’s an enlightened, lovely way to live.

    There will always be arguments for an against in regards to what is best health wise, but first and foremost we should be considering our fellow earthlings and that it’s simply not right to kill another being. We simply don’t need to do it to survive and thrive.

    I appreciate your insights and your beautiful blog. Sending you lots of blessings x

    1. Karly

      April 13, 2012 at 3:37 pm

      I understand that people love animals… so do I! But I also believe that they’re here to provide us food. (And shouldn’t be raised in battery cages.)

      I don’t think ancient man had tofu, veggie burgers, or almond milk…

      1. Joelene

        August 9, 2012 at 2:35 am

        And ancient man didn’t have computers or mobile phones like what we’re using to communicate with right now. They didn’t have things like medicine either. Medicine/science has obviously saved many lives. We learned it over time. My how we have evolved! Now we have learned how to let food be our medicine again and embrace a vegan diet.

    2. Claire

      April 14, 2012 at 10:22 am

      Done nothing to harm another being? Are you sure about that? I’m willing to bet that even you have swatted your fair share of mosquitoes in your life time. Aren’t insects beings? How about microorganisms? You can’t really avoid consuming bacteria and other microorganisms. And if they don’t count as beings, then how do you decide what is? They live, so do plants, so do insects. If insects don’t matter,would you eat lobster? Lobster are actually just aquatic insects. I’m just wondering what your classification of “being” is.

    3. Anders Branderud

      January 2, 2013 at 7:23 pm

      Thanks for standing up for all precious animals!!

  9. Karly

    April 13, 2012 at 3:31 pm

    It’s Fight Back Friday and I found the link to you! You know *I* think this is an awesome article. :)

    There are always a few exceptions to every rule… so I do think there are a few people who may not do well on a Real Food diet… BUT they are few.

    The science behind a traditional diet is well-founded and I REALLY doubt anyone on the “pro-vegan” side has delved into the info about “our side”, while the general population has vegetarian/vegan info thrown at them every time they turn around.

    I have friends who are vegetarian/vegan and they are a bit over the top. They try to cook with NO fat at all! Not enough protein either. And one, while she is skinny, has a chronic migraine problem and her mom (who is also very skinny, but looks like her skin & hair are begging for some fat nutrients) just had hernia sugery. Not that those medical issues are necessarily directly related, I just have my suspicions.

    1. Lori Winter

      April 13, 2012 at 10:06 pm

      Karly, thanks so much for your input! Glad you found my site through Food Renegade and hope to connect with you more!

      1. Hanna

        April 14, 2012 at 4:13 am

        Hi
        I was wondering if a vegan can please explain to me why eating dairy from an animal that is well looked after in a loving environment is wrong?
        And why eating a non fertilized chicken egg is wrong (provided the animals are well looked after I mean)
        Im not having a go – just wondering the reasoning behind it.
        Thankyou

        1. Ella

          July 14, 2012 at 3:29 pm

          Hi Hanna,
          I’ve been reading this post here and noticed no one answered your questions.
          ;) so here I will try with my own experience.
          Dairy especially cow’s milk contains a protein that is not digested properly by humans and has a direct link with cancer.
          It is pushed by the industry because beef and milk come from the same source so it’s ‘good business’ to push the sales on them.
          Dairy is also linked to candida – a fungus in the body that is referred to as the ‘silent killer’ it can literally throw off your whole health off – misdirect the doctors and slowly kill you with many forms of illnesses…. in my case, I believe my rare neuromuscular autoimmune illness was a result of this.
          If you must keep eating dairy, if it’s too much for you to part with and change your diet (although there are many amazing alternative products that are-non dairy and healthier). But if you must keep eating it – Kefir and natural full-fat yogourts (unsweetened and plain) check the ingredients – are the best. They are at least filled with beneficial probiotics and break down more easily than cow’s milk. Processed cheese – bad. Cream cheese – bad. And all must be organic.

          About the eggs, eggs are fine but only 1 1/2 eggs contain the max cholesterol per day your body can handle + more foods contain cholesterol! Point being, people easily overdose without even realizing it! 4 eggs per week is max. Also, eggs are one of the top allergenic foods on the list – if anyone experiences a health problem/ gastrointestinal pain or discomfort – should remove eggs from their diet for a few weeks – then eat them in isolation and see if they have a reaction to them.

          I am reversing my health through diet and am about 90% vegan, but eat wild salmon and some small fish. I got better and back to my own strength, from being unable to walk/ eat/ talk/ chew and swallow food – to being Normal! Thanks to the almost-vegan lifestyle.
          You didn’t ask, but I don’t eat any meat because it’s hard on the digestive system and is highly acidic. A plant-based diet aids digestion and is highly alkaline and loaded in all the vitamins and fats your body needs.
          And I get my B12 from Spirulina – a natural algae that grows in water!
          *hugs*
          Let me know if you have any more questions. xo
          Ella

        2. Lenore

          September 11, 2012 at 7:27 am

          Not to mention that female cows are violated against their will to create milk.
          Like humans, female cows must be pregnant in order to produce milk. They don’t just produce it 24/7. They must be artificially inseminated by a very invasive sexual procedure, which is technically considered rape.
          Once the cow gives birth to her calf, the calf is taken from her, striking her with feelings of grief and sadness, just as a human mother would. Most of the time, these calves are chained up into boxes and malnourished in order to create veal. Therefore, a milk-drinking vegetarian (as opposed to vegan) is still supporting the veal industry.
          Dairy cows are forcefully impregnated, with their calves stolen from them, several times throughout their miserable lives. Sure, they can let the cow chew grass for a while or pat it on the head a few times and treat it “humanely” throughout this process, but what they are put through in order for you to drink their milk still stands as a 100% inhumane thing.

          1. VulpesRex

            September 11, 2012 at 1:00 pm

            @Lenore

            My guess would be that you are a progressive-minded individual. AmIRight? You consider using animal products to be cruel and a violation of the “rights” of the animal? How about eating veal? Cruel as well? Would it make a difference to you if the calf was pulled from the mother’s womb before it was born? Can you say for certain that the mommy cow actually wanted the baby or the pregnancy in the first place? How do you know that the mother would be stricken with “grief and sadness”? Perhaps the mommy is relieved to have an unwanted intrusion out of her uterus.

            People of your apparent political persuasion are among the most hypocritical people on the planet. Support abortion-on-demand and euthanasia, but oppose capital punishment or the use of animals for meat over “ethical” concerns.

    2. Kathy (aka Mrs Dull)

      April 14, 2012 at 10:06 am

      Hi Lori, loved this post! It rings true with my personal experience.

      Info about vegetarian/vegan diets is abundant in our culture. As a result I think most people have a pretty good awareness of what that diet is. Real food omnivore diets however receive little to no coverage in the popular press. People have little to no understanding of what this diet is. Generally when people think they are comparing the two they are really comparing a well thought out vegetarian diet with SAD ( standard american diet ). They aren’t comparing with a real food diet.

      Twenty years ago when I had my first realization that my SAD diet was making me sick I did my research (all books, this was pre-internet), heard the media’s take on diet and decided that a near vegan diet was the best possible diet. So I jumped in headfirst. I ate mostly legumes and whole grains. Very little fat, mostly olive and flax oil. No dairy at all, was reacting very badly to it. Meat was about 4-5 oz a week, and very lean. At first I felt great! Lost a lot of weight, allergies improved generally felt much better. But then I started to develop new problems. Also, some of the old issues came back with a vengeance. Maybe because my SAD diet was very, very bad prior to adopting this near vegetarian diet this all happened very quickly. The honeymoon lasted about 6 months.

      Once the honeymoon was over I struggled on for about 3 years trying to get back to that good feeling, adjusting my diet here and there. Still continued to feel worse. Finally, I gave up and not knowing what else to do, adopted a modified version of the SAD diet, with the most egregious offenders eliminated. I still felt better than I did on my low-fat near vegan diet. Granted, this was not a true vegan diet, but it was very close.

      So, while I think that a well thought out vegetarian diet is an improvement over SAD, I agree that it isn’t viable over the long haul. It did work well as a detox diet for me, and many people I’ve run across over the years. But I’ve yet to meet anyone who could stick with it longer than about 5 years. I know they are out there, and a some have posted here, but in my day to day life I’ve not found them.

  10. Stacy

    April 16, 2012 at 12:45 am

    Great post, Lori. I agree. 100%.

    I was actually a vegetarian (not a vegan) for eight years. I firmly believe that I felt and looked healthier after adding meat back into my diet. Others told me the same thing.

  11. Chandelle

    April 16, 2012 at 1:12 pm

    I was vegan for several years. I studied nutrition in college with an emphasis on plant-based diets. T. Colin Campbell was my hero, right below Gandhi. I was definitely convinced that veganism was not only the healthiest diet for almost everyone but also the most ethical, socially conscious, and sustainable. I was a bit of an ass about it, actually. :)

    I focused only on whole foods, soaked my grains and beans, ate tons of coconut oil, and consumed kale by the boatload, and still I ended up with several deficiencies (including non-existent vitamin D and inadequate B-12 levels despite daily supplementation and sunshine) and other health problems that could be directly linked to my years on a vegan diet.

    Now I eat a diverse diet that includes the same amount of vegetables, but far less soy and grain, and plenty of grass-fed/pastured meat, dairy, and eggs. And, although I have plenty of healing ahead of me, I am slowly coming back to life.

    Overall, I feel that I learned some profound lessons as a vegan, and I don’t necessarily regret it, until I’m confronting yet another issue that seems to stem from that choice. Then I wish I could go back and smack my younger self in the face for my ignorance and arrogance. I can’t believe how bad I let things get before I’d consider that I was doing something unhealthy. I fell asleep at stop lights and I still thought, “Veganism is awesome! It will save the world!” I just so badly wanted to believe it could be true.

    I respect each person’s choices and try not to push my point of view or be dogmatic or zealous about anything, including my grass-fed meat. But I do think my experience is incredibly common.

    1. Shay

      January 18, 2013 at 3:08 am

      Chandelle, I noticed you said that you had experienced other health problems. Even though they could not linked directly, did any of these problems happen to affect your digestive tract? For example; did you experience any sort of gastrointestinal issues? This is obviously very personal, so I understand if you decide not to answer. I am a vegetarian. I recently transitioning toward a strict vegan diet, but have decided to continue to eat fish and a minimal amount of cheese (that are supposedly organic from pastured cows), and this would help me in my own personal research.

    2. Nino montoya

      January 23, 2013 at 11:20 pm

      But where would you find grass fed pstured meat and dairy

  12. Meghan

    April 18, 2012 at 10:36 am

    Thanks Lori for the article, while I can respect and appreciate your point of view, I do agree with a previous commenter that I think it’s unfair to say a Vegan diet is unhealthy. New studies(funded my medicine, and not big business) are coming out daily showing the benefits of a whole foods, plant based diet vegan diet and now more mainstream info is available, such as Forks over Knives, The China Study, Engine 2, Food Matters, Hungry for Change, Eat to Live, No More Happy Cows, etc along with many medical professionals and scientists who are declaring the benefits of a WHOLE FOODS, PLANT BASED, Vegan diet. The problem as I see it is that Vegans have long been commited to eating Vegan based soley on animal rights. Which don’t get me wrong is a HUGE reason to eat Vegan. All the while consuming processed tofurky and soy sausage. These products are just as bad for you as processed meat sausage and turkey lunch meat. And I do agree with you, if you are going to eat chicken, beef, butter, etc. eat it from an organic, grass fed, pasture raised humanely treated local farm and eat it sparingly. We need to get rid of factory farming and pink slime! But to lump all Vegans into one category is wrong. Look at Rip Esselston an Ironman Triathlete, who makes an effort to eat a nutrional well rounded diet. Every person is different, but a whole foods, plant based vegan diet can be wildly successful long term.

    Also, I believe many people “fail” at being vegan because we are programmed from big cattle companies and mainstream marketing to believe we NEED to eat meat, so alot of Vegans eat tofurky trying to get the same taste, instead of changing the way they live. And its these studies and examples you seem to be using as why Vegans are un-healthy. The same chemicals in those processed “vegan foods” are making people just as sick as a conventional hot dog.

    And remember to our grandparents, animal products and dairy were luxuries, meant to be special and a treat which is why they were healthier than thier children and thier childrens children.

    1. Hanna

      April 19, 2012 at 7:39 pm

      The china study isnt good enough.
      It is a dietry recall study. people lie or just forget to mention something that they have eaten.
      There arent many proper nutritional studies as the cost too much. One on how sugar affects the body has just been done, they “locked” participants in an old hospital wing so they could moniter what they ate etc. This is the only way to get accurate readings of what has been eaten and how much exercise.

  13. MatthewS

    April 30, 2012 at 2:40 pm

    I’m not promoting a vegan diet but red meat is a no-no, no matter where it comes from. Have you heard about Neu5Gc?

    *Neu5gc = is a unique sugar which causes rapid cell turnover. We are the only mammal that doesn’t have this nutrient; we lost it 20,000 years ago. Other mammals need this nutrient for accelerated physical development (so they can walk/run a few hours after birth); however, they have a much shorter life span. Birds and reptiles and most fish (except for salmon) don’t have this nutrient. When we eat red meat and dairy we are ingesting neu5gc, thus increasing cell turnover which leads to inflammation, auto-immune conditions, tumors and cancer.

    http://juvenon.com/jhj/vol8no3w.htm

    http://www.terramadrefarms.com/article/neu5gc-molecular-insight-our-past-and-disease-processes

    1. Lori Winter

      May 2, 2012 at 2:38 pm

      That’s really interesting info Matthew. Thanks for sharing the link.
      Granted, blueberries are acidic. And cancer cells thrive in an acidic environment. Does that mean I should never eat blueberries again?
      The beauty of grass-fed, pastured beef (NOT CAFO beef from the supermarket, which is used in the majority of studies that indicate red meat causes cancer) is that it is also extremely high in CLA (conjugated linoleic acid), which is a powerful cancer fighter. I actually find it fascinating how holistic it all is.
      We may not agree, but thanks for joining the conversation!

  14. Susan

    May 6, 2012 at 11:12 pm

    Do you truly believe that consuming the breast milk of another species is more healthy than eating plant foods?
    Cow breast milk is designed for baby cows, not humans. We are adults. We do not require breast milk.

    1. Scott

      August 21, 2012 at 11:29 am

      No, eating both breast milk of another species and plant foods is more healthy than exclusively either. Our bodies reveal. Live to perform and maintain healthfully.

  15. 52toGreen

    May 7, 2012 at 12:53 pm

    Great article, Lori. I’ve been a vegetarian for a number of years now and I’ve heard many arguments for why eating meat is more healthy. I’ve actually lived with a Paleo-dieter for the past year, so I totally understand the benefits of getting fat and protein from meat. I think for me, the one thing that kept coming up when I was reading your article, is that for most vegans and vegetarians, you can’t simply remove the moral argument from the health argument. It may or may not be the case that eating meat (good meat) might improve my diet. I feel that the improvement to my own physical health is not worth the guilt of killing animals. After not eating meat for a number of years, I actually look at a steak as just a dead cow, and am instantly turned off. It’s a shift in mentality. If you argument is that animals are here to nourish us, that is where we will come to an impasse. I think the more important thing that I will take away from your post, and your blog as a whole, is that it is important to pay attention to what we put in our bodies, understand how the food we eat works to fuel our system, and make sure that we are paying attention to what our bodies tell us about the food that we are eating.

    1. Stephen

      February 6, 2013 at 12:42 am

      Vegan diet done correctly has more nutrtion in than any other diet on the planet for humans. People who tell you otherwise don’t know what they’re talking about. And should stop telling lies. And giving out disinformation. And instead of panicing they should start growing more fruit and veg! Check out nutritionfacts . org – they explain about what is healthy!

      Meat causes heart problems and cancer and is the most toxic food on the planet for human beings after dairy. Please stop eating dangerous food!

      1. Rachel Taylor

        February 23, 2013 at 10:58 pm

        Your like a broken record

  16. Food is like religion. | 52 to green

    May 7, 2012 at 1:15 pm

    […] Does no one find it odd that this argument is still going on and no one has come to a definite conclusion? I discovered an awesome blog this morning written by a mother much like myself who was trying to change her lifestyle. I spent some time skimming through a number of her posts, and came across this one, which I had to read for obvious reasons: A Vegan Diet Is Not Healthy. […]

  17. vitabella

    May 21, 2012 at 12:39 pm

    I couldn’t agree more!!!
    (btw, you’re awesome! I need a BFF just like you! Unfortunately, girls like us are hard to come by!)

    1. Simon

      May 26, 2012 at 11:55 pm

      I think so much of what is pushed as healthy eating is done so by people trying to sell a book, or push a product… for me the answer is a little less complicated and a little more ‘evolutionary’. A life changing (literally) moment was when I read Jane Goodall’s book ‘In the Shadow of Man’ and now I take a more ‘evolutionary’ approach to eating that is more about balance than anything else. When Jane Goodall went to live with the Chimpanzees, who are about 98% genetically identical to us, she discovered that Chimps actually eat meat. Her discovery was made when she witnessed some chimps ambush a wild pig and her babies, nabbed one of the babies and took it back up into the trees where they proceeded to eat it. If you have ever seen the graphically confronting David Attenborough documentary of a Chimp hunt then not only will you be convinced they eat meat but you will also see there is not of lot of grace, moral reflection, or ethical debate about it. Anyway… given that Chimps are one of our closest living relatives it is interesting to note how they eat and even use it as a model of how we should be eating ourselves. They don’t go reading books on nutrition, or have moral debates about whether they should or should not eat meat. They eat in a seasonal way, only rarely eat meat, in a way that allows them to be successful where and how they live… those are some pretty significant factors to take into account and I’m sure most people don’t realise how big this statement is, such is our detachment from the biological world and our attachment to the constructed world. They eat a variety of things when these foods are available and if the opportunity to eat meat presents itself then they do… eating meat is a difficult task for them; it’s hard work so it is more of an occassional thing instead of their staple diet. Jane Goodall documented Chimp ‘tribes’ eating meat up to once a week at times to supplement what they could collect or forage for though this was never in large helpings. This speaks volumes to me. I think the ‘take home meesage’ from this is that meat in our diets is part of our grand design but as with many things associated with the human condition we have chosen to indulge ourselves. We have meat every day in super-sized portions and we demand to have access to apples every day of they year. So now I try to eat seasonally and have reduced the amount of meat I eat. I don’t eat gluten, processed sugars, or lactose (why is that we think drinking milk is a good idea… no other animal in the world EVER drinks milk into adulthood). I love food but I get more satisfaction knowning that the way I eat is more in tune with the blind watchmaker’s blueprint… as with most things I still have a way to go and it’s very much a work in progress but I am already seeing the benefits in gradual changes to my health… the next thing to go from my life needs to be stress! So, I agree that a vegan diet is not the one that people should be following. An almost vegan diet, however, is what our systems have evolved to be able to deal with. And… seasonal eating is now one of my great joys. Waiting for my mulberry tree to come into fruit makes them taste even better! It is a proven way to reduce our environmental footprint too… food for thought…

      1. Isabel

        August 1, 2012 at 3:12 am

        This is an interesting comment, and I think I agree with your main idea. However, I’d like to point out that your reasoning contains the naturalistic fallacy. That is, the belief that things in nature are as they should be and that nature should be a model for our own society. Chimps also roam around in loose packs and attack any other groups they happen to encounter on their patrols. By this reasoning, gang behavior is perfectly natural, evolved to protect self and other group members, as well as territory and resources. But is it good? Probably not.

        That said, your end point seems similar to mine. I decided to try veganism primarily to be more conscious about my environmental footprint, so I am interested in reading the linked article concerning that topic. In researching vegan health, I have read a few scientific papers that indicate that both omni and veggie/vegan diets can be healthy, as long as all necessary nutrients are eaten. As previous commenters have mentioned, it’s easy to degenerate as a vegan if all you eat are carbs and spinach. But I think it’s the same way with omnivores, if they rely primarily on meats and fats. I don’t think nutrition is harder for one group more than the other, so long as the consumer knows what they are eating.

        1. Lisa

          October 9, 2012 at 12:58 pm

          I think I get what you’re saying Isabel, but I think there’s a difference between social function and biological sustenance. Behavior is one thing (attacking other chimps, gang mentality, HOW a being acquires its meal, etc.), WHAT a creature eats to sustain itself is something else. I’m not sure the two can be compared. It’s not that nature should be a model for our own society, however, when we are talking about a model for health it’s difficult to say that eating meat is unhealthy or unnatural when a chimps digestive system (including teeth) is so like our own with the exception of their elongated/sharp canines which are meant to kill prey without the use of tools (something we haven’t had to do in a very long time). I think the point is not exclusion, but moderation. I’m not an expert, but that’s my opinion.

      2. Mason

        August 17, 2012 at 12:34 pm

        Yeah we should definitely base our diet on what chimps eat for sure after all wasn’t it the chimps who invented the wheel and raised the pyramids? I have lived on a cattle and hog farm my entire life eating meat and consuming milk. I was diagnosed with type one diabetes when I was 17 and since then have discovered how nearly all the foods in the traditional American diet are detrimental to our health. We raise organic hogs on our farm and I have seen firsthand the widespread ecological destruction that comes along with raising hogs and cattle. Erosion, soil compaction, runoff pollution from manure, and competition with wildlife over food are just a few of the environmental problems that can be completely avoided if everyone ate a well planned vegan diet. Scott Jurek who is one of the worlds best ultramarathoners runs races of 100 to 135 miles in length is a vegan. He holds the North American record for most miles covered in 24 hours. Why dont you tell him being vegan is wrong.

      3. Chris

        September 23, 2012 at 10:08 am

        Hi Simon,

        Your post is interesting, and resonates with a lot of what I believe. I also strive for an evolutionary approach to eating, and believe that (having eliminated processed foods from my diet), my natural cravings are a decent indicator of the nutrients that my body needs.

        There are, however, some flaws among your claims.

        I would like to point out, though, that the assertion that no other animal will consume milk into adulthood is actually false. Cats are known for enjoying milk/cream even into adulthood, and from other animals no less! Beyond that, there have been examples of newborn animals suckling from animals outside their species.

        Even if the argument that “we are the only species that drinks milk into adulthood/from other animals” was correct (which is is not, though indeed the tendency is rare), it would not form a sound basis on which to conclude that we should not consume dairy products. The question of greater importance is not whether other animals consume dairy, but rather if it is healthy for us to do so.

        I would agree that there is little nutritional value in pasteurized milk. The pasteurization process kills all of the beneficial bacteria and denatures enzymes that help with nutrient absorption. However, unpasteurized (or raw) milk is a great source of loads of different nutrients that our bodies need. Sure, you can pick these up from other food sources, but raw milk is an exceptionally nutrient dense food. Beyond that, it tastes delicious.

        As for real world cases pertaining to raw milk:

        The Maasai people of Kenya/Tanzania have a diet that consists of mostly raw milk, raw meat, and blood. Dr. Weston Price, on his visit to the region in 1935, found these people to be mostly disease-free and have teeth that were in very good condition. It’s worth noting that fruits and vegetable are virtually absent from the traditional Maasai diet.

        Beyond that classic example, people in raw milk circles report immense improvement in conditions ranging from joint and muscle pain to osteoporosis after they began drinking raw milk.

        Moving on to meat: Yes, I generally agree that it is not necessary for most people to eat very large quantities of meat, but I would like to point out that that does not mean that it is necessarily bad to do so. The indigenous people of the North consume a diet that is almost exclusively meat from seals and whales because the climate in those reaches is not conducive to agriculture. Many of these people report feeling ill after consuming Western cuisine.

  18. Miss Daisy

    May 27, 2012 at 1:51 pm

    I was diagnosed with IBS 8 years ago, which, for those of you who have heard of it, falsely conjures up images of a person for whom Pepto Bismol is practically a dietary supplement. Well I can tell you that this is not the case for me, but I did have REALLY painful stomach pains for seemingly no reason. A year later, I decided to go vegetarian for personal moral reasons. I have kept it up since, for the last 7 years, and I am doing much better with my IBS as well as my health overall. It’s worth noting that a lot of the trigger foods for folks with IBS include animal products, so this may be why I have seen improvement

  19. Nannie Jo

    June 10, 2012 at 10:14 pm

    I’m such an idiot. I started the vegan diet thinking it was the right thing to do. I went to the doctor to get blood testing done. Come to find out I’m vitamin B12 deficient, and I wasn’t before. He tells me I can get shots or go back to eating the way I ate before. I think to myself that getting shots in order to get a vitamin is not normal. We should be eating what we need to eat in order to obtain all the vitamins we need, not go get “shots”, what kind of backwords crapola is that? Have you ever heard of the book “Fit for Life”? By Harvey and Marilyn Diamond? It was one of the most popular books written in the 1970’s pertaining to weight loss and living a vegan diet. Anywho, I was curious to see what happened to the authors of that book so I google searched Marilyn Diamond and she has a Facebook page saying she is not vegan anymore due to some serious detrimental effects that it has caused her. Her page is truly shocking. But it’s all the truth.

    1. lisa

      June 16, 2012 at 10:20 am

      Hi! You probably needed the shots because you werent taking the supplements and went way too deficient and needed to top up pronto. As long as you’re taking the supplement consistently orally (sublingually) you should be fine. Also, birth control affects absorbtion.

      But I’d always ask a doc before making such a radical dietary change!

      1. Andrew

        March 31, 2013 at 9:16 am

        So why do you need supplements lisa?

    2. Lori

      July 6, 2012 at 2:22 pm

      Nutritional yeast….cheesey tasting little flakes of stuff that looks like yellow instant mashed potatos. Doctors recommend shots and drugs because its there bussiness. You should have just gone to a nutritionist to help you plan a better diet.

  20. lisa

    June 16, 2012 at 9:43 am

    Thanks for the article.

    It’s quite obvious that you chose a sensational headline to get page hits. Smart blogging! Way too sweeping a statement to be accurate. A well balanced vegan diet, while difficult to achieve, is extremely beneficial to many.

    So is meat eating more ecologically sustainable? What about the water crisis? World hunger?

    Thanks!

    Lisa

  21. Erin

    June 18, 2012 at 2:17 pm

    It’s very interesting hearing everyone’s point of view. I’m not sure there is one right answer, though it would be much easier if there were.

    I used to get sick all of the time when I was younger. Ate meat, dairy, etc. At 16, I decided to change my diet, much to the horror of my family, who are farmers, meat and fat eaters, and all but a few, obese. (I’m not saying because they eat meat and fatty foods that’s why they’re obese; it’s just interesting to note since some argue that’s the only way to go.)

    So I went vegan. I stopped getting sick, my acne went away, and 15 years later, I’m far healthier than I was back then. I am a healthy weight for my height, without counting calories and without exercising excessively (as a benchmark I am at 21 of a “healthy bmi”, which is regarded as anywhere from 18-25).

    I tend to eat a good amount of nuts and oils. I read the article by John Nicholson and while I thought it was interesting and seemed to work for him, a lot of long living cultures (think Sardinia) eat oils and live long lives, so I’m not sure if the oil part is completely true (unless they meant trans fatty oils or at an extreme high temperature). Some of those cultures also usually eat meat sparingly, if at all. In my opinion the key is more to eat “clean”, minus chemicals, packaging, processing, etc., be active on a regular basis, have good relationships, and have a positive though still realistic view of life (sometimes easier said than done I realize).

    I don’t go about trying to convince anyone that veganism is what they should do. I think some people do better on certain foods than others. As an effort to experiment, there have been periods of time where I have introduced dairy back into my diet, and my acne came back. Whether it’s mental, pasteurizing, or the actual dairy that brings it back, I couldn’t tell you for sure.

    As far as meat goes, I have a really hard time eating animals because I’m such an animal lover. Someone in a previous post asked at what point does a being become a being? I don’t know exactly, but I do know that I don’t kill bugs either, not even mosquitoes (which may be a risky move). At the moment I just can’t with a good conscience eat animals (or kill bugs).

  22. NormandieWilson

    June 20, 2012 at 1:22 pm

    It really seems to me like this article was written just for the sake of stirring up controversy. With everyone’s different body chemistry and all the various scientific studies there is no way one blog post could EVER come close to touching upon the myriad of benefits and challenges of each kind of diet. So first of all, I’m pretty disappointed in the facts chosen and the writing in general. If you wanted to invite a discussion about it, that would have been the wise way to go. A one-paragraph blog post like “I don’t think vegan diets are healthy, what do you think?” The thing that makes me CRAZY in all the foodie vs. vegan stuff is that both sides think they are completely right 100% of the time. I know vegan pro surfers who are anything but 100% healthy and I know meat eaters who are healthy. I know vegans and omnivores alike that struggle with various health conditions. How about this: how about we let people eat how they want to eat and don’t get so up in arms about it? I’m really over vegans AND writers like you shaming people about their food choices. It’s counterproductive and I don’t think it’s good practice. For the record, I eat small amounts of dairy and eggs, and fish occasionally. I was vegan for a while, vegetarian for a long time, etc. Eventually MY body told me what it needed. These kinds of articles should stop and there should be more of a focus on people like you, with extensive amounts of knowledge, helping people figure out what they should be eating, because it’s different for every single one of us. Some people will thrive on a vegan diet, some people thrive with more meat than I, for example, could handle. This stuff is just getting silly.

  23. Jorge Teixeira

    June 20, 2012 at 7:11 pm

    Yup, you can see how malnourished these vegan folks really are: http://www.veganbodybuilding.com/?page=bios

    1. Jen

      August 9, 2012 at 2:49 am

      Love it! Some of the worlds strongest body builders are vegan, and raw-vegan!

  24. Dietary Concerns | Bang!

    June 26, 2012 at 10:18 pm

    […] https://www.laurelofleaves.com/2012/04/a-vegan-diet-is-not-healthy/ Share this:TwitterFacebookLike this:LikeBe the first to like this. Posted in Uncategorized […]

  25. Sarah

    June 27, 2012 at 5:18 pm

    You do make good points about not eating factory farmed meat as that is truly poison. Not to mention how the animals must feel. One thing I do disagree with is eating butter as a nutritious food. Even though you might get organic, grass fed butter, it’s still artery clogging butter. The little benefits of butter probably do not outweigh the damages it can cause.

    “A vegan diet is not healthy because of the lack of fats.” Last time I checked, consuming animal fat isn’t healthy. With the availability of anything anytime in this day in age, getting these healthy vegan fats incorporated in one’s diet is extremely easy.

    I’m not trying to sound mean, but from your article it sounds as if I should go get a slab of animal flesh, butter it and wash that down with a nice glass of milk that is designed to nourish a baby cow?

    1. Scott

      September 9, 2012 at 1:14 pm

      Over the decades, as I’ve checked with my body, animal fat is very healthy for me, and for the vast majority of humanity, – nearly all, if not all. It’s a matter of healthy results. You can see results with yourself,… basically anyone can with theirself. And, it’s all a matter of balance, which is variable, dynamic, seasonal, and situational.
      Plant products are usually the majority of what I eat. But animal products are equally important, no less important. Btw, I live in San Diego CA.
      Plant fats tend to be less healthy for me as I’ve seen with my body, plant fats typically cause inflammation responses in small amounts. But even animal fats should be consumed in moderation(as with any sort of food), though butter should only lightly be used, of course.

    2. Chris

      September 23, 2012 at 9:34 am

      I am not a doctor, however my understanding of current medical understandings is that arterial inflammation, the most significant predictor of heart disease, is largely caused by high dietary intake of simple carbohydrates and by a skewed ratio of Omega-6 to Omega-3 fatty acids (the result of high consumption of vegetable oils).

      As a food, butter is actually a good source of nutrients such as K2, which is not only beneficial to heart-health, but has also been found to significantly decrease the risk of prostate cancer in men.

      This is not meant to sound mean (or like a cruel irony, haha), but it seems like maybe your opinion on butter is more heavily influenced by the FDA’s grain-based food pyramid and the cultural lipophobia that resulted from being taught that “fat makes you fat” than by a real background understanding of how heart disease functions.

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